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Post by Gun Totin American on Jun 29, 2009 13:44:29 GMT -5
The Declaration of Independence clearly sets a legal precedence when the government fails to properly represent the people. In that document Thomas Jefferson puts forth the viewpoint that it is the responsibility of the citizens to tell the government where they have gone wrong and just what it is that the people consider to be unacceptable. We have done just that on a number of occasions in recent memory. We all know what has happened and why we cry foul, so I will not waste your time in remunerating all that has transpired.
The fact that congress continually acts contrary to the will of the people, due to some arrogant belief that they know how to better take care of our lives than we do, shows just how wilted the tree of liberty has become in a very short time. It has been stated by those that came before us that this precious tree needs refreshed periodically by the blood of patriots and tyrants. I believe that each of us here would be willing to sacrifice our blood to rejuvenate that tree, and I would wager that we would consider any man who stands in the way of liberty to be a tyrant.
Let us consider for a moment: What if there was a way to rejuvenate that tree for the benefit of future generations without requiring either our blood or the blood of those that wish it destroyed? We take the words and deeds of the founding fathers to be praiseworthy, and in my case I believe they were divinely inspired. Those brave men practiced restraint for many years, and they exhausted every viable alternative to armed conflict before they were forced to take that terrible, yet noble, step. What if we have one last viable alternative to conflict?
There is an idea that has been growing in my mind for some time now. Lately it has occupied much of my spare time in wondering how it could be accomplished. What would it take to have a wholesale recall of both houses of congress? How could we create a national movement to remove those in power and replace them with people who would work for the people?
If we could orchestrate a grassroots initiative that would bring to ballot a vote of "No Confidence" in congress it would be possible to have a special election that would fill the halls of the capitol building with new blood; people not beholden to special interest groups and back room glad handing. The one main problem that we have with our elected officials is the culture of corruption that exists. A new senator may have his ideals set on serving his constituents, but he must pass through the gauntlet and pay the piper in order to play the game. In this case the piper consists of those that are already embedded in congress and hold the positions of power within the committees, and who control a congressman's fate of being remanded to an inconsequential corner of Washington if he is unwilling to play by their rules. It doesn't bear much difference than the way the Godfather runs his organized crime racket.
Imagine: you remove the Godfathers and all of their pawns from the scene. With the place wiped clean you can start anew. If the referendum is set up well, it would not allow ANY individual who has previously served to run in the special election. They would be barred from serving in a federal capacity of any kind; including advisory positions.
I know that this sounds like a pie in the sky idea, but I'm sure the idea of a free and unified 13 colonies did as well to those who came before us. In this game the bold are favored. This is NOT an impossible dream. We can achieve this. What we need to know is how. How do we get this measure on ballots this fall? How many signatures do we need and how many states do we need them in? What are the legal requirements in each state in order to achieve this? Does the initiative need registered with the state before signatures are collected?
I cannot do all of this research on my own; it would take me more time than we have allotted to us. I need some assistance. Please research the requirements for your state and send that information to me. State POC's, make a few calls and find the state statutes regarding grassroots measures.
Please, post this on other forums and get the word out. We CAN do this. We know what the alternative to this is, and I for one will do anything I can to prevent it if liberty can simultaneously be preserved. Together we can change the course of our nation and return it to greatness.
United for Liberty!
Ryan Jenks A&M West Region POC westregion@alarmandmuster.com
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yankeespirit76
Full Member
Hold on Constitution...we're coming!
Posts: 99
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Post by yankeespirit76 on Jun 29, 2009 14:46:20 GMT -5
"If we could orchestrate a grassroots initiative that would bring to ballot a vote of "No Confidence" in congress it would be possible to have a special election that would fill the halls of the capitol building with new blood;"
As far as I know, there is no such provision in the Constitution for a "no confidence" vote, or "recall". All we have is the impeachment process. If I understand you correctly, your proposing that we bring all 535 Congressmen up on impeachment charges. That means all 100 Senators would have to vote to impeach themselves and their friends. I don't see that flying.
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Post by busboy on Jun 29, 2009 20:03:34 GMT -5
Your idea is interesting, but is a large bite to chew. What is it that we want? We want the government to adhere to the rules that it was established under, namely the Constitution. Anyone here feel that the Constitution is obsolete and is no longer viable as a rule book for our governmental system? If not, then go no further than the first line...."We the People..." The Founders were very wise, very smart and knew human nature better than we could ever hope to, so they gave us every tool we would need to secure those very Liberties and Freedoms that they bled to secure for us. Across the nation you have 34 states that have passed, or are considering, 10th Amendment Resolutions. These are essentially putting the federal government on notice that they are not playing by the rules set forth in the document that establishes the federal government. The People created the federal government, through the states. The created can not become greater than the creator. So, We the People have the tools currently to fix all of the problems we have. We do not need to "sweep out the old, bring in the new" for a government, because the government we have today, is the government we want today. The reason the feds are running rough shot over the country is because that is what the "We the People" want. Now with 34 states stepping to the Tenth Amendment plate, one has to see this as a bit of a change in the "hearts and minds" of the American people. Those state level politicians would not do that if they thought it would cost them their seats. John Adams speaks of when the American Revolution was won: “The Revolution was effected before the War commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments of their duties and obligations. This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution.” John Adams quoteThe one thing that we can do it get the "minds and hearts" of our fellow citizens to value and demand Freedom and Liberty. Until we accomplish this, we can sweep every politician out of office and within an election cycle, the same type of arrogant usurpers will be in there, because that is what the "minds and hearts" of our fellow citizens want. Take Kentucky for example. Election day, 2008. There were 110 state level representatives "elected" to go to Frankfort to represent the People of the Commonwealth. Of those 110, 73 ran UNCONTESTED! 3/4 of our "representatives" did not even have to run in the election, they just filled out the form and paid a fee. So it is difficult to point to the politicians and say they are not acting according to the will of the People, when the People will not even force them to stand up for themselves. If the People do not hold these politicians accountable for their actions, then why should they listen? They need to focus on getting re-elected, if the people are of no threat, then they will cozy up to their party leaders to reap as much benefit from them. Also, how many of us, and our family/friends actually bother to contact our representatives? There is plenty of talk, but if the overwhelming majority of the contacts that a representative has is for a certain position, they will take that position.....if they think they will be held accountable. Only 10-15% of those in D.C. hold an ideological position for Liberty and Freedom (we would call them real Americans), there is only 10-15% that hold an ideological position to abolish personal Freedoms and Liberties. There is 70-80% in the middle that will only do what they think they have to, to get re-elected. They just really don't care, as long as they are on the "correct" side of the issue. Our job needs to be to get our neighbors to understand what the correct side of the issue is, and then get them to communicate their wishes to their representatives. This will fix most every issue that you and I can see in this nation. People like to talk about what they will do when the "ballon goes up", and frankly, it is just talk. If all the talkers were willing to do what they can, today, to keep the "ballon" from going up, then we would have little fear that it would. Even if the American Revolutionaries of 1775 were able to throw off the shackles of the British, if the "minds and hearts" of the people of this land, back then, were against the concepts of Freedom and Liberty, they would have never seen an Independent nation. There is a group in Kentucky called "Take Back Kentucky", I am not affiliated with them in any way, who is being very successful in getting positive, pro-Liberty legislation passed in Frankfort. There is an equally good group in Indiana, called the "Second Amendment Patriots", and they have been very effective in getting pro-Second A legislation passed in IN. A relatively small group of dedicated, determined people can have a very large effect on the course of their state and nation. The Independent American Party has a very good program going to get pro-Liberty legislation introduced and passed on the federal level. They have determined that in some districts, that as few as 50 dedicated people (districts represent 450,000-650,000 people), are able to sway the vote of their representative. A more "real" number is 300-400. However, that is a very small percentage of folks willing to receive email alerts, send prewritten letters, and doing so in a proactive way. Folks, with @95 congressional districts on the state level in Kentucky, Freedom loving Kentuckians could OWN Frankfort for just a few thousand people working together. I would say that less than 10,000 could do it. Could we get 1000? KY population is 4.2 million. Remember, we need not every politician on our side, just 51% of them Remember, we need not every citizen on our side, just 10-100 per district, and only 51% of the districts. Assuming that some of those reps already vote correctly, we are looking at only 30-40% of the districts, so could we get 4000 people in Kentucky to act like owners of this state, and of their nation, like the Founders expected us to, when they were dying on the fields of Liberty?
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Post by tinymite on Jun 29, 2009 20:09:22 GMT -5
We in Arizona have the right to recall a Congressman or Senator if we have just cause. Ryan wasn't saying impeach he was saying the States need to bring these people home and send in ones who will do the job.
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Post by Gun Totin American on Jun 29, 2009 20:33:30 GMT -5
busboy,
On a state level I would most wholeheartedly agree with you. In most states (California exempted) the representatives are boots on the ground in the areas they represent. They clearly see the snarl on the faces of the voting public and act in the best interest of keeping their jobs. The people thus win. This is why you don't see most states running over the will of the people for very long.
In Washington on the other hand, this proximity to the voting public is non-existent. They live in a world surrounded by other representatives and special interest groups that promise far more money and power than their counterparts on a state level. The recent activity, yes, even massive call-in campaigns, that has been generated by the people has had no effect on the outcome of adverse legislation. To put it bluntly: They don't give a rat's a$$ what the people say.
I would love for you to be correct regarding our elected officials listening to the voting public, but history is writing another story. People have been standing up, and doing so in record numbers; yet their voices have been ignored in favor of the sweet tune played by the power brokers.
It is time for stronger tactics.
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Post by Bowhunter on Jun 29, 2009 21:20:45 GMT -5
It is time for stronger tactics. Please continue to recruit in your areas, we need numbers.
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Post by Michael Downing on Jun 29, 2009 21:49:12 GMT -5
It would appear that the majority of "we the people" put these tyrannts in place and when it comes to congress that majority has been returning them there. That being said it would be impossible today to get a majority to recall them even if we could. I believe we need to fight hsi war on multiple fronts. One to work to gain more support and bring more people into the fold while they continue to lead the email and letter brigade. Two we need groups willing to work at a level above the faxes, emails and tea parties to harrass the enemy without resorting to violence and what that is should be defined within those groups (peaceful disobedience). Third we need enough members organized and prepared to tkae over and take control when and if a worse case senario evers happens.
We defintely need numbers and I am doing what I can to bring people over locally and across the country and we all need to do the same. Beyond that we need a multilevel plan to move forward and be prepared for all contingencies.
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Post by busboy on Jun 30, 2009 1:06:54 GMT -5
Two items on the federal level that is often overlooked.
1) They do listen, we just don't hold their feet the fire well enough. Look at the illegal immigration bill. They were going to debate the bill on Monday, have a bill on the desk of the pres to sign on Tuesday. "Really sorry citizens of America, there is nothing you can do about it" was their attitude.
With tons of folks calling, writing, etc. Those in Congress realized that it was a make or break issue for them. They do it, they don't get to come back to D.C., get their limos and perks furnish and they lose their corporate junkets. The bill never got to the pres.
The Bail out bills are another example of "We the People" scaring the feds. Same deal, Friday the Bailout was announced. Big deal about Congress setting through the weekend to get a bill for the Pres on Monday. What happened? They got so many calls they had to step back. They had to take time to see what side the calls came down on. Unfortunately, there was not enough on the side of Liberty, the bill got crammed down our throats late the next week. However, it demonstrates that 'We the People' pressure can work.
2) We underestimate the power of the states in reigning in the feds. The 10th Amend resolutions set aside. Where does your federal reps turn on election time for support? The state level party. They rely upon them to set up speaking venues and fund raisers. If "We the People" have control over the state reps, we can leverage that against the fed reps right away.
"Hey fed rep, this is the state rep calling. I see a bill on gun bans is coming. I will be watching you, if you botch this, I will be campaigning against you, and the 15,000 people in my state district will be reminded of your treason. Oh and by the way, here is a letter with 8 of the 10 state reps in your district that agree with me. Good luck on finding places to campaign here, and remember, your voters and donors are our neighbors."
"Time for stronger measures"? Really? Why do we need stronger measures when perfectly adequate measures are ours for the taking, but we are not utilizing them? The problem in America today, on the federal level, is not that there is an out of control government, riding over powerless subjects, like our Founders faced. The problem is that the mass of those that claim to be Americans are too ignorant, lazy or apathetic to do their jobs as American citizens, owners of this nation.
Any effort to 'restore' America, outside of the tools and avenues that our Founders have set up for us (which have proven to be very effective in today's world), is a "Revolution". The only way that a "Revolution" for Liberty could be successful is if the majority of the people want it. If a majority of the people want this "Revolution", then why would they not just avail themselves of the much easier path of following the already established Constitution and preserve Liberty that way?
To speak of doing something outside of the means available to us within the Constitutional framework of this nation is to step over a dollar to pick up a penny. Stepping over the easy, to do the difficult.
"We need more people". Yep, we sure do. Do some silent math. Chose your favorite "stronger measure", figure out how many people you will need to pull it off. What ever number you come up with, you will have surpassed the number needed to get this nation back on course Constitutionally.
In fact, we are seeing the embers of Liberty being fanned as we live and breath. You look at the Tenth Amendment Resolutions, Tea Parties, the State Level Liberty laws, the fact that the Pres's Socialist/Communist agenda is being stalled by his own party. All signs that the system and program is working as our Founders intended. The tree of Liberty is strong and health, but it is coming out of a Winter season, where it only appears to be dead. The buds are starting to show.
We need to continue to wake people up, continue to point them in the right direction, and educate them to their duties, responsibilities and the possibilities.
We need not to allow ourselves to be convinced that the Founders program no longer works, that the system is broken, that we are helpless. These are the messages of those that seek power and control. These messages, the ones you get from the mainstream media, are designed to make you and your neighbors feel helpless, hopeless. This is why they had to suppress the news/coverage of the Tea Parties. It is the reason you hear little about the Pres's party bucking him. You can not allow "We the People" to get out of their status of being ignorant, lazy or apathetic, then there is no way to control them.
This nation can be turned around, using the very tools that our Founders gave us, using the owner's manual that they gave us. It is the shortest, easiest route to restoring our Liberties, why would we want to take a harder route?
I challenge anyone here. Do you have 10 people in your state level district that you work with on a constant basis to contact, interact and communicate your wishes to both your state and federal representatives? If you do not, why? Don't tell me it is ineffective, as we have proof it is effective. Don't tell me it is too hard, if so, tell me your easier way, we could all use it.
If you can not get 10 people to do these very easy things. Knowing that they can do them in just a few minutes a week, never have to quit their jobs, never have to become felons, never have to face the "King's troops", they can go home anytime they want, sleep with their wives, watch their children grow, and enjoy the fruits of their efforts.
Do you really think you can get 10 that will "Take their muskets off the wall", face the King's troops, in the face of certain death. When they would have to quit work, sacrifice their families income and insurance. Live as felons, never being able to go home, never seeing their children grow. Knowing that even if successful, that there will be little support for what they are doing by the general population.......?
If you can not get 10 to do the very easy and effective, can you really get 10 to do the most difficult.
A parting shot. If we have the power and ability to keep all those nasty things happening that would drive us to "take our muskets of the mantle", to "invoke our oaths to defend the Constitution", yet we do not do them, how can we ever justify any other actions we might take?
If we have the power to restore and preserve our nation, as passed on to us by our Founders, yet chose to sit and wait until the line is crossed before we take action, what does that make us? How can we look our children in the eyes, knowing that we are letting our inactivity heap upon them conditions that will be unbearable, and all the while thump our chests with grand discussions of what we will do if that line is crossed?
It is talk, sadly, and talk is easier than action. This is precisely why this nation is in the state it is.
The General that lead the British troops on April 19th, 1775, from Lexington back to Boston, wrote on the very morning of the start of the Revolutionary War..."I despise these New Englanders......they TALK much, but ACT little".......after he returned to Boston, having nearly lost his 1800 men, he wrote..."Those that see these people as a band of rabble are sorely mistaken.....They have men among them that know what they are about"....
Talk about "what must be done" all you want. What CAN be done is plainly before you.
I know not what path you chose, but for me, I chose the path that our Founders have blazed and that path is already paved with the blood of our forefathers. They have sacrificed through the generations to ensure we could travel the road of Liberty. They gave us the "road map", the Constitution. We only need to unfold it and use it.
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Post by kiawahman on Jun 30, 2009 8:18:56 GMT -5
I agree that more needs to be done to re-establish control over our elected officials while working within legal and non-violent channels. Prep as you may, but we are still far from having exhausted all civil means of regaining control over our government. Act aggressively outside of the law of the land and you'll become an outlaw, accomplishing little outside of your own demise, your voice silenced forever.
We need to channel more time and energy into awakening the populace, gaining their minds, support, and voices. Now is the time to really ramp-up the effort into a frenzy of activity that gives the people some hope and direction, direction that the government cannot provide with all their fear mongering and 'emergency' legislation that takes us deeper and deeper into debt and uncertainty. If you feel you've done all you can do by yourself, then extend your influence by helping others to spread the message, like the branches of a tree, which is precisely what this site is about - is it not?
I saw peaceful direction and purpose in this website. It gave me hope that there really are other concerned patriotic citizens that see the madness and want to correct it without throwing the baby out with the wash water. Much of what I have been hearing lately is saber rattling drowning-out the voices of reason and wisdom. I am mad as hell over the events of the past 10 months, scared nearly to death at seeing this great country and Constitution dismembered piece by piece, but still not yet willing to switch to end-game tactics that would almost certainly bring about catastrophic results without the support of the majority of the people.
I had viewed next year's election as the tell-all of whether there is any hope left for America, if the people have truly placed principle and reason over handouts and false security. Recent events strongly suggest that next November is a million light-years away, much more needs to be done right now. Opposition to the administration is surfacing more with each passing day, but we don't always hear about it. The Cap & Trade/Clean Air bill needs to draw our 'direct fire' as it is teetering before the Senate. Our local Rep. states that the tactics used to push this through the House on Friday are already leaving a sour taste in the mouth of legislators returning home for the weekend and facing their constituents. Yes, legislators still do fear the people - when the people stand tall and shout their demands. Make no mistake about it, we do need to make a noise to be heard as most of our elected officials still believe we'll forget everything come election time, they bank on it. Creating an uproar over this bill will cause legislators to think twice before voting on any controversial legislation that crosses their path - and there are many more stacked up behind this one.
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Post by Patriots Support on Jun 30, 2009 10:24:25 GMT -5
kiawahman, Well said, I am in agreement with you 100%. Keep working towards peaceful solutions, I too get frustrated, we are all human, and frustration is part of that, but, that is no reason to go off half cocked.
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Post by spy1 on Jun 30, 2009 10:48:06 GMT -5
busboy - Excellent, true-to-the-mark post. Thank you. Pete
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Post by Gun Totin American on Jun 30, 2009 11:17:22 GMT -5
busboy - Excellent, true-to-the-mark post. Thank you. Pete Once again, I would agree with busboy's premise, as it has kept our country the most free in the world for a long time. However, he is overstating the current usefulness of the system as it was intended by the founding fathers. He cites the tea parties and other actions as "slowing down" the fascist agenda. In essence that means it is taking two weeks to pass a cap and trade BS bill rather than one week. The fact that these things ARE, in fact, being railed against by the population, and yet they continue to get through the congress, shows that congress is more apt to listen to back scratching and threats by the messiah. He states that we are not holding their feet to the fire. By allowing these people to remain in power we cannot hold their feet to the fire until the midterm elections. Who honestly thinks there will be a shred of our nation left to bury by that point? I want to make it clear that I am not against our system of government; exactly the opposite actually. The problem is that the founding fathers warned us against certain elements of society gaining control and we have allowed that to happen. Those elements need removed wholesale. The corruption that exists in Washington cannot be exterminated unless we start again with new representatives. Basically busboy, by your view we are showing progress if/when a "lifetime dictator" bill passes congress and they only get 51 votes in the senate. Look at the progress! They only passed it by one vote! The fact is that they are passing these bills even with the anger of the people. The tea parties were ignored, and you know it. I am not advocating that this sort of action cease. I just believe that something stronger needs done. It seems that some have interpreted my words as being words of war. I apologize if that is the case because they are not. I am one of the people who is trying to reign in those who want to start shooting. You stated that any efforts to change government beyond those that were given us by the founding fathers is a revolution. You are correct, and the founding fathers advocated such action. The Declaration of Independence specifically states that such action is the right of the people. Forcing a recall of congress would be a revolution, but it would be a peaceful and bloodless one that would return us to the principles of the Constitution. Without such action there will be no ceding of powers by the government. Once a ruling class takes hold of power they do not relinquish it. The 2010 elections, if successful, will do nothing to remove the suffocating measures that have been put into place recently. They might ease them a little, but they will not remove them. We will never be free from tyranny unless we remove the offending culture from the capitol.
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Post by seredoc on Jun 30, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -5
IF the recall happens or impeached there needs to be provisions that their retirement or any stipend goes away there has to be an end to the BS also laws enacted that make it a federal crime to take money from a lobbyist or special interest group the elected official gets removed and the lobbyist's company pays a hefty fine and brig time.
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Post by Gun Totin American on Jun 30, 2009 16:03:39 GMT -5
IF the recall happens or impeached there needs to be provisions that their retirement or any stipend goes away there has to be an end to the BS also laws enacted that make it a federal crime to take money from a lobbyist or special interest group the elected official gets removed and the lobbyist's company pays a hefty fine and brig time. I couldn't agree with you more. The owner of a company would not make an investment that will not bring a profit. Lobbyists are businesses. They are buying politicians.
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Post by dmyers on Jun 30, 2009 17:01:59 GMT -5
I just believe that something stronger needs done.
I agree, how do we take the first step?
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Post by busboy on Jun 30, 2009 17:25:29 GMT -5
There is little doubt that the federal government has overstepped it's Constitutional bounds. The tools to fix that are clearly in the Constitution itself, the Founders provided the fix for this situation.
The 'fixes' often spoken of by folks are from outside the Constitution, thus revolutionary.
Too many people are fixating on getting their answers from D.C. They look to Washington to solve their problems. The problem is that those in Washington have taken this willingness of the people to let them handle problems outside of their jurisdiction, to gain further control and power over the people, much more than has been intended.
Ask yourself when this all started? You will naturally see it as a gradual process. So, now we want the typical, 21 Century American "quick fix". Well, the "quick fixes" that many long for are not in the Constitution.
The fixes are, if "We the People" wish to actually do them. However, the distractions of scheming of new and improved, revolutionary quick fixes will lead Americans from doing what can be done.
34 states have (or are in the process) of putting the federal government on notice that they have over stepped their bounds. This is a Constitutional approach. That is well over 50%. Where is the discussion here about getting your state to either finish that process or start it if you are one of the 16 that has not?
Where is the discussion here about fighting a "delaying tactic" on the federal level, while making gains and wins on the state level?
Folks, to want fixes is normal. To want easy, quick fixes is revolutionary.
To appeal to the Declaration of Independence as a source for American action today is to step over the easy to do the non-Constitutional. Do you not think that they Founders knew about the Declaration of Independence when they formed the Constitution?
They KNEW that the Federal government could usurp the powers that have not be specifically delegated to it (10th Amendment), they put in place the tools and powers to rectify that situation if we found ourselves in it. And it does not included throwing off the system of government that they established for a new one, which is exactly what anyone that is advocating any action that is not specifically allowed or in agreement with the Constitution.
The setting in this nation on July 4, 1776 was vastly different than on September 7, 1787 and today, 2009. The Founders had no legal recourse, no tools with which to secure their Liberties and that of their children, on July 4, 1775, thus the need for the Declaration of Independence.
What do you declare your Independence from today? Your government? Who is that government? "We the People".
So are your declaring your Independence from your neighbors?
The problem is that too many people want to project 1776 mentality on to a 1787 issue, and that is a revolution. Do tell me where in the Constitution that it says that we can throw off the shackles of our government to start a new? It is not there. There are avenues there for us to fix the government, and those are the paths that our Founders made for us and expect us to travel.
The real problem, the underlying problem is the "hearts and minds" of 'We the People'. You might possibly be successful in throwing off the shackles of the usurpers in Washington using an extra-Constitutional method (I have my doubts, but it is possible), but what do you have when you are done? You know longer have the United States of America, you know longer have the nation that your Founders have given you. I have no idea what you will have.
I do know that once we toss off the "shackles" of the Constitution, we have lost this nation forever, because the "hearts and minds" of the majority of the people are not FOR the Constitutional America we live in today. This is because all too many have no idea what a Constitutional America looks like and how a Constitutional American lives like. What they are comfortable with is an American form of Socialism/Communism.....so, that is what we will end up with, unless we get "We the People" to become Americans again.
I site the Tea Parties as "successes", but not as success. What I mean is that the process of "saving the nation" is on going, generational, in nature. EVERY GENERATION must be vigilant and watchful to ensure that their representatives adhere to the Constitution. EVERY GENERATION must preserve what they have inherited, and pass on a more free nation to the next generation.
There is no such thing as a "one time applied remedy" to the threats against our Liberties. It is a constant struggle. This is why we are in the situation we are in today. Generations upon generations have wallowed in their ignorance, laziness and apathy to allow the slow creep of Socialism and destruction of our Constitutional Republic to the state of the nation we have today.
The problem with the Tea Parties and other such efforts is that they are more talk than action. GTA points out that they were "ignored". First, they were far from ignored, however, they have been seen as nearly toothless, thus they can be discounted.
Our "field of action" is on the state level! Do you realize that with the mid-term elections in 2010, we could nearly complete a turn around in this nation? The state level system is ours for the taking. A few votes, maybe as few as 50 will give Liberty loving Americans a seat in a State House.
That seat in the State House will give us a voice to control our instate affairs and introduce bills that are pro-Liberty.
That seat in the State House will allow us a voice in drawing districts within our state. It will give us access to those federal level reps that very few have.
The federal level reps must have the cooperation of the state level parties to be successful, it is that simple.
The state level reps are closer to the "hearts and minds" of the people than the federal level reps.
You want your "revolution", there it is, and it is all laid out for us within the Constitution! No need to invent "better ways" outside of the Constitution, no need to step outside of the bounds of our current nation.
The battle in this nation is not with the federal government and "We the People", it is with the states and the federal government. This is what the Founders gave us. They knew that both the states and the federal governments would always seek to gain power over the other, and both would seek to gain power over the People. They set up a governmental system that would allow "We the People" to use this friction between the states and feds to leverage for more Liberties........if that is what we wanted!
During the debates on the Constitution, there were arguments about giving the federal government too much power, or too little power. During these arguments, they would outline what the course of action by "We the People" would be if either the states or the federal government would usurp powers above and beyond their mandates, and it most often included the leveraging of one against the other. They built our system of government in a way that "We the People" would always have a power source, a way to check the aggression of either an out of control state or federal government.
The states are starting to stir, and that is because "We the People" are stirring them. That is also why you see the federal government throwing huge amounts of cash at them, to quell their stirrings.
Again, many of the ideas on how to "fix" the current situation would require monumental, revolutionary actions......why take on such burdens, when the simple, easy fix has been handed to us by the Founders?
If you can rally enough people to "force a recall on congress", then you will have surpassed the number of folks you would need to fix the nation via the Constitutional methods.
If you try to get a recall vote on a single rep (assuming that such a vote is allowed under the state and federal Constitution, otherwise you have a Constitutional Amendment process to go through first), then you will need 51% or more of the voting population to go along with you. Assume 100,000 voters in a congressional district, so 50,000+ voters in your district to make this happen.
Multiply this by 300 districts (assuming that we need not get them all out of office), and you have 15 million people, or more, that you need to work together....
If you can have an impact on a state district with an average of 25 people. 95 districts in a state, you have 2,375, per state, take 35 states, 83,125.
The point being, that Constitutional methods have been made easier for us than the revolutionary methods, for a reason. The Founders knew that there is a risk of "We the People" being swayed by emotions, for a season. Thus, they build in the stability of the system to allow us to get emotional without consequence. But they also knew that we would get lazy, and thus, they said if we use the program, the rule book, the road map that they provide, it will be easier to maintain this nation.
You take that 15 million that you need for your revolutionary attempts, and put them on the Constitutional tools that we have available, and we have our nation back in 2 years, or less, and we will keep it that way.
The one caveat, you need real Americans, those that understand that you can't just 'attend' a Tea Party and waive a banner and all will be OK. They need to act like owners of this nation, keep a watchful eye, do what needs to be done, and yes, sacrifice for their nation, children and future.
It is not easy being the owner of a nation. It means that some of the "me time" that our generation has grown accustomed to will need to be sacrificed, but a small price compared to what the Founding generation did for us.
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yankeespirit76
Full Member
Hold on Constitution...we're coming!
Posts: 99
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Post by yankeespirit76 on Jun 30, 2009 18:54:50 GMT -5
We in Arizona have the right to recall a Congressman or Senator if we have just cause. Ryan wasn't saying impeach he was saying the States need to bring these people home and send in ones who will do the job. I'm sure you do have that provision...most states do, but my point was that you need a very good reason to recall someone. You can't do it just because you want to.
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Post by Gun Totin American on Jun 30, 2009 21:20:21 GMT -5
"Folks, to want fixes is normal. To want easy, quick fixes is revolutionary."
And your proposed recourse to those that are currently conducting a revolution that is contrary to the Constitution is adherence to that document which the ruling class ignores.
I love your appeal to Constitutionally derived change, but due to past ignorance and laziness by the majority of the people we find ourselves in a place where we are ignored and abused. Changes made through elections will do nothing but perpetuate the problem due to the aforementioned culture of congress. Noobs in congress can do nothing without the authorization of the masters that reign in longevity. Without cleaning house we will not correct the problem.
I do not disagree with your contention that we should support our states in declaring themselves sovereign within the framework of the Constitution. I support my state and all legislators that back such a measure. Unless we support our states by cleaning house in congress we will accomplish nothing besides secession and war. If the states do not back up their assertions of sovereignty the federal government will not stop their power grab. If the states do back up their declarations the federal government will attempt to stop the states and there will be war. The only way to help the states do this is to clean out Washington. The disease is inherent to the blood that exists in the governmental body. If new blood is transfused it will become diseased. Only by replacing all the blood can we clean the body and remove the sickness.
I don't disagree with your ideal, but it is in the end an ideal. It is not practical in our current circumstances.
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Post by Michael Downing on Jun 30, 2009 21:23:24 GMT -5
I believe that state sovereignty is a possible non- violent means to bring the issue of Constitutional neglect to a head. Won't happen ehre in NC as afr as I can see becuas ethe Gov and most of the reps will not let it come to a vote. If anyone out there suggests a Con-Con as a solution be careful. It would be a Pandora's Box from which we may see hell itself emerge,
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Post by busboy on Jun 30, 2009 22:02:10 GMT -5
"I don't disagree with your ideal, but it is in the end an ideal. It is not practical in our current circumstances."
It is precisely our current circumstances that the Founders had in mind when they built the system that they have given us.
Far from "ideal", using the tools within the Constitution is the most practical approach of all that I have ever heard. (now I am always open new views, but the threshold proof of practicality lies on others than the Founders. They have proven themselves very wise and apt to these issues)
"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820. ME 15:278
"Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories. And to render even them safe, their minds must be improved to a certain degree." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIV, 1782. ME 2:207
"The most effectual means of preventing [the perversion of power into tyranny are] to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge of those facts which history exhibits, that possessed thereby of the experience of other ages and countries, they may be enabled to know ambition under all its shapes, and prompt to exert their natural powers to defeat its purposes." --Thomas Jefferson: Diffusion of Knowledge Bill, 1779. FE 2:221, Papers 2:526
"The information of the people at large can alone make them the safe as they are the sole depositary of our political and religious freedom." --Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 1810. ME 12:417
"Though [the people] may acquiesce, they cannot approve what they do not understand." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on Apportionment Bill, 1792. ME 3:211
No Freedom Without Education "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384
"Convinced that the people are the only safe depositories of their own liberty, and that they are not safe unless enlightened to a certain degree, I have looked on our present state of liberty as a short-lived possession unless the mass of the people could be informed to a certain degree." --Thomas Jefferson to Littleton Waller Tazewell, 1805.
"No nation is permitted to live in ignorance with impunity." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1821. ME 19:408
"Light and liberty go together." --Thomas Jefferson to Tench Coxe, 1795.
"Above all things I hope the education of the common people will be attended to, convinced that on their good sense we may rely with the most security for the preservation of a due degree of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. Madison Version FE 4:480
"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government;... whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Price, 1789. ME 7:253
If we do not educate ourselves and our neighbors, there is little hope for Liberty!!
You and I can sit at the pub and come up with a plan that we like, but can we implement it?
The Founders have enacted, implemented the Constitutional methods, and they are true. If we strike out on our own, we not only disregard their sacrifice and wisdom, but we take on the role of blazing a new trail, and that in it as itself is a task beyond our abilities.
It all comes back to the fact that without the "We the People" behind any issue, there is no hope for it to carry the day. Our job is to educate our neighbors and get them to sit up and take notice of their ownership responsibilities.
From there, we need to move people to the point that they will carry the torch of Liberty that our Founders lit for us.
How about a better plan? A workable plan? A national congressional recall is very impractical.
I will continue to beat the drum of looking to the states to be our tools against the federal government. It is the tool we have available to us today, and we can make it work. The number of folks that it would take to make it work is a small percentage of any number of people that would be needed for any extra-Constitutional approach.
The Constitutional Plan: 1) Work within your local circles and develop a team of 5-10 people who are dedicated to watch legislation on a state level that needs your attention. There are in each state, organizations that watch for legislative issues that pertain to their area of focus. Guns, Environment, children, taxes, etc.
They will happily put you on an email list, give you contact information, and even prewritten letters if desired.
Your team meets once a week (52 times a week), probably much less, as most state legislatures don't meet year around. You write and send your letters.
You do the same with the federal level.
2) You work grow this program across the state, to eventually encompass the entire state. With aggressive growth, this could easily impact your state and even the nation by the 2010 elections!
3) Having citizen groups within the state who will both watch and hold accountable the representatives on the state and federal levels, within their districts.
This means that these groups need to be educated on the intended course our Founders had in mind for us. These groups need to be able to point to their fellow citizens to both the cause and effects of their reps not representing them. We need to work together on some of these issues.
The very good news is that there are groups/orgs that already exist in each state that want to do these very items above. What they need is energy and helpers, and that is where we come in.
You approach one of these orgs, be willing to sacrifice, be willing to give for the future, you will be rapidly promoted within the ranks and have directional control over a large tool for the defense of Liberty.
It is positive view on our prospects and future, based upon the building blocks our Founders gave us. We struggle through this process because it is right, just and effective.
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Post by Gun Totin American on Jul 1, 2009 1:04:40 GMT -5
busboy, we will have to agree to disagree. Your optimism is great, and I hope to the Lord Almighty that you are right. I just don't see decades of abuse of power being ceded back to the people without a renewal of congress. We will NOT make a difference in Washington until the power brokering is destroyed. Those that are embedded will NOT destroy it and those brokering the power will taint any election toward those they control. I keep making medical references and I will make one more. You cannot control a cancer by dabbling at its surface; you must rip it out.
I just don't think you see the fact that the control mechanisms within the constitution have been broken by all three branches of the government and we need to fix that with drastic measures. This is proven by your assertion that the Constitution forces slow political movement so tyranny becomes impossible. The fact that his majesty has created a seismic shift in the country in 6 months proves that the mechanics of the constitution have been broken. We cannot fix them with slow movements.
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Post by busboy on Jul 1, 2009 12:22:21 GMT -5
When we were in school, they taught us that we have "checks and balance" in our government. Falsely, we were told it was the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the federal government. The Founders, on the other hand, saw the "checks and balance" as being the states vs. the feds. You are correct in stating that the feds will not benevolently give up their power. The Founders understood this and that is why they put in the mechanisms to give the states, and the people, power to impose restrictions upon the power of the feds. The American's fixation on Washington is a build in distraction for where the real power lays. If you look to Washington for answers to Washington's problems, then yes, the outlook is bleak like a cancer. However, if you look to the root cause of the problem and the solutions that are available to us outside of Washington, then the issues are much easier to fix, with a much less invasive procedure. Washington is not a cause, it is a symptom. The nation is not sick because of what is in Washington, it is sick because the owners of this nation have not taken care of the nation. Junk in, Junk out. The cure is not to cut out the cancer in Washington, because what caused the cancer is still working and there will be more cancer, sooner....unless we can change the health habits of the nation. The reason you and I are getting the joys of a Socialist/Communist/Fascist federal government is because the owners of the nation have established an environment in which these diseased can flourish. Fix the root cause, fix the disease. Treat the symptoms and deal with the disease forever, and eventually succumb to is. Again, this is an attempt to place some rubber to the road. It is easy to say, "throw all the bums out and replace them with good people", but how do you really do that? There is not mechanism in our current governmental system to sweep out the old and bring in new. Further, with the current state of the average American mindset of entitlements, the new would very quickly resemble the old. There is, however a mechanism in place, in our current governmental system to mitigate the effect of the old, to neutralize or defang those in Washington who wish to take away Liberty. This is via the states. The reason Washington has the power it does, is because they have the money. They are running out of money, thus they will no longer be able to use this as leverage over the states. The states are realizing that the feds can not support them. So, they will progressively have to rely upon themselves to support their system. This is why you are seeing so many pro-Liberty bills and resolutions coming from the states. It is only a matter of time (and we can impact greatly the timing of this) before the states tell the feds, "you don't get to rape our citizens with your taxes any more". The states will soon not allow the IRS to collect taxes within their boarder [WY currently has a law on the books that forces the feds, specifically the IRS and ATF, to gain permission and coordination with the local elected sheriff before conducting investigations and operations in their state. This has been upheld in the appeals courts] The reason the states will do this is because the "We the People" of the states will demand it. What the feds do with these sorts of actions by the states is out of our control, but I will say this, anything that they do to try to stop it will be revolutionary in nature and thus will be treasonous, thus placing justice and righteousness on the site of the states and the People. Our job needs to be to inform our fellow state citizens of their potential. To educate them of the folly of the Socialist/Communist/Fascist direction of the federal government. We will never be able to impose Liberty upon our fellow countrymen, they must desire it!They can not desire it, if they don't know what it is. They will be more likely to put forth effort to achieve it, if they see it as achievable. They will be more inclined to embark on the path to Freedom/Liberty, if they see that they have a road map, proven tools and the reassurance that they are in the right. Jefferson's quote about the 'tree of Liberty' can be found here, in a letter: www.theatlantic.com/issues/96oct/obrien/blood.htmRead it carefully for the context of what he is saying. He is saying that it is better to have the public engaged in the process of government, even it sometimes they may over react, or act too hastily, out of ignorance, than to be lethargic and non-caring. That the love of Liberty can forgive a "rebellion" now and again. It is unclear whether he has read the Constitution fully at this point, though it appears that may be the case. It is certain that he does not have the benefit of knowledge of the debates of the Constitution, both in the congress and in the papers. And it is most certain he does not have the benefit of the Bill of Rights which addresses some of his concerns. Also note, he does not use the words "revolt or revolution", but rebel and rebellion. Indeed this is on purpose. He understands that to rebel is to put against the powers of government, and in his context, that of a tyrant, these powers would be outside of the established Constitutional government. A revolution is to change the government. The American Revolutionary war started as a rebellion, against the Kings usurping the powers not delegated to him by the Colonial Charters. It became a Revolution on July 4th, with the Declaration of Independence. I assert again, there is no need for a revolution in this nation. A rebellion is justified and every tool that is needed for a successful, peaceful rebellion is within our Constitution, as a gift and blessing of our Founding Fathers. Stepping over the easy and peaceful, to do the difficult and revolutionary, is an exercise that we can and should avoid.
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Post by Michael Downing on Jul 1, 2009 22:31:18 GMT -5
I view his words in a different context.
"The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty."
It is my belief that he is making the point that the powers to be in England used the press to miscontrue the facts of the rebellion to where they wanted the world to believe that the revolution was nothing more than anarchy. Further the efforts were so effective that some of the colonists began to the propaganda themselves. He then goes on to report that the "anarchy" happened in MA which was the birth of the revolution (rebellion so honourably conducted). He goes on to say that the people can not always be well informed. This is not the fault of the people but I believe refers back to the reference of the government (british) and the media (gazetteers). He then goes on to say that if under such misconceptions if the people remain quiet then it is from being lazy which is the forerunner of death of liberty.
This would seem in my opinion actually that under present circumstances where our present government is attacking liberty from every point of view and using the MSM to not only present their cause but to vilify there opposition then we are in a situation identical to what the revolutionary factor of those who were dealing with England. Look at NBC that is a bastard child of General Electric hwo favors Obama but stands to make millions from cap & trade. AbC turns over broadcasts to Obama television. So the gazateers are defintely in the pocket of the "New King George".
That being said I believe we are back to a revolution every 20 years is a good thing whne the peopel are being deprived of freedom and liberty. His comments as to set them right as to facts refers to educating the rest of the public but he has already said let them take arms. anfd then finishes with the liberty tree quote.
" Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure."
I do not advocate armed insurrection by any means. I do however see any attempt to twist this letter into anything else than a call to arms to support liberty is a twisted view of history. it is nothing more than a justification of the blood that spilled on both sides to bring thsi great nation forth.
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Post by rodbender on Jul 3, 2009 15:33:34 GMT -5
I often wonder what the reaction of our dear congressmen and senators would be if about 50,000 irate citizens (unarmed) were to march on the capitol and fill it with our ire. We could let them know that we want America back and that they should resign if they will not repeal the unconstitutional statutes and departments that they have created and that the next time we WILL BE ARMED and they will NOT like the end result.
Edit: Let me know the date and time.
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Post by Michael Downing on Jul 3, 2009 18:00:57 GMT -5
A few hundred thousand of those the MSM support can march and they become a million man march, we could show with 500,000 and unless there was confrontation between our peacefull marchers and officials or counter protesters then we would largely be ignored with out civil disobedience. I am not saying do not march I am saying do not expect too much when you march. I myself think we need to focus as local as possible in our towns, cities, counties and states. We need to strengthen our numbers locally and to turn the tide around locally. We will still need to keep the heat on our federal representatives but they are not the issue right now. Gain strength locally and we will measure our effect in 2010 and that will determine what our chances are in 2012. Gain strength locally and add more members. Make contact with like minded groups. Our cause is just.
"Our country is in danger, but not to be despaired of. Our enemies are numerous and powerful; but we have many friends, determining to be free, and heaven and earth will aid the resolution. On you depend the fortunes of America. You are to decide the important question, on which rest the happiness and liberty of millions yet unborn. Act worthy of yourselves."
Joseph Warren, March 6, 1775
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Post by busboy on Jul 3, 2009 22:48:14 GMT -5
Gotta ask.
If we are not doing what we can now, what makes anyone think that taking an even more difficult (stronger) path is going to have better results?
The point is that there is no need for something stronger, as the "lesser" (by some opinions) will work just fine, if implemented.
To say that "This effort does not work", the whole while not putting forth for that effort. They suggest that a more difficult effort is needed. Well, it is rather easy to predict the results.
How many people do any of you know that are sitting on their cans at home, saying that they want to do something to fix the nation?
Now how many of those people are doing anything now about it?
How many of them will say to you, "I would do something today, but I just have not found a difficult enough effort to work at"?
The point being, sadly, too many "Americans" are sitting on their cans, watching (perhaps complaining) their country go down the tubes, but yet, they lift not even a little finger to solve the problem. Now some want to ask them to get all the way off of their couch and actually do something that is going to take more time, more effort and more sacrifice?
When you all crack that code, please share with the rest of us, cause that is counter to everything I have witnessed over the years.
Stonger sounds nice, but it is far from needed, and is going to much more difficult to pull off.
The very simple and very easy is too much for too many "Americans".
Hearts and Minds is all it takes, and we don't need many.
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asus
New Member
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Post by asus on Jul 4, 2009 9:47:24 GMT -5
It is time for stronger tactics. Please continue to recruit in your areas, we need numbers. I sent this out to about 2000 people on Facebook today. The Alarm & Muster group there is growing fast now. I'm pulling in some favors and it'll go out to another few thousand shortly... Glad to help work on a group like this.
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Post by Gun Totin American on Jul 5, 2009 0:42:43 GMT -5
It is time for stronger tactics. Please continue to recruit in your areas, we need numbers. I sent this out to about 2000 people on Facebook today. The Alarm & Muster group there is growing fast now. I'm pulling in some favors and it'll go out to another few thousand shortly... Glad to help work on a group like this. We appreciate it asus. Grassroots is all the media and advertising we have.
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Post by finnian on Jul 5, 2009 10:08:38 GMT -5
Greetings to all,
I found this site through Facebook, and friend invites on there would be welcomed. Long ago I gave up the idea of remaining anonymous, so look me up as Finnian Cornelison.
This thread has been a good read. Many thanks to you all! Unless I am mistaken, this group is designed to create a network of like-minded individuals for the purpose of defensive communication. For many months now I have known that the Internet is no friend of those who support tyranny, and therefore it cannot be depended upon in emergencies. For that reason and others, I went and got my technician license for amateur radio. I'll be getting my general license soon enough to get on HF bands too.
Since the issue has come up, I believe it is worth mentioning: myself and apparently many others on here are NOT advocating a war. We'll know when it is time to fight gentleman. It will be when they come for our guns. That's an easy enough event to recognize. Such a fight would be entirely justified and defensive as well. I would not advocate any other reason either.
We cannot be entirely enslaved as long as we are armed. However, we must guard against gradualism. The UK and Australia have been disarmed by such measures, and we would be wise to study those cases to defend our own. There's a reason people are buying so much ammunition and so many weapons. Anyone can see Obama's record from Illinois and realize where he'll take the nation as well.
Unfortunately, I believe as a couple in the thread have stated already, and our system is broken. The means through which our founders intended to defend liberty no longer work because of how far it has come. Americans, myself included in my past, allowed themselves to become ignorant of the responsibilities liberty requires. Too many of us and our parents, took for granted what our previous generations suffered, bled, and died to protect.
I am part of the protests, I do write letters, and I have called my representatives. I've signed petitions. I've begun to educate myself on our constitution and plan to run for a local politican office. Basically, I am willing and actively doing all I am able. My concern is that all activity such as mine, even when done by thousands, will do no good in the end. Our nation has been bought and paid for, and this battle has been waged from pretty much our foundation--all the way back to Hamilton and our national banking.
The Crap and Slave bill is a perfect example. Even though I _am_ doing all I feel I'm able to do peacefully and many thousands of others are, it will pass anyway. I'm not sure what representative it was, but basically they actually stated they would vote on it based on how many yes and nos they received from their constitutes.
Now, that leads me to the seriousness of our problem, as I see it at least:
This is NOT a democracy, and the word is an ugly one to me. Yes, "We the People" are the parent, and our government the child. However, we are a representative constitutional republic. What do I mean by that?
Our representatives should not need, or for that matter rule according to, the "will of the people." They should be ruling according to our constitution and what is both ethically and morally just for liberty. When a representative writes or says such things, they need to immediately be removed from any future consideration in my opinion.
Our problem in other words is that we have a government full of leaders who do not even understand the form of government we have! They believe we are a direct democracy, or at least they want to believe that is the case since it allows them and their puppet masters the easiest way to further their adgendas.
All of these bills, half of our government agencies, and a whole host of other things should never have even been done according to our constitution. However, they were. It shows how desperate our situation really is. Our constitution is being IGNORED to further tyranny.
"When the government disobeys the constitution, what is treason?"
I thank you for your time...
For liberty,
Finnian
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Post by Echo5Alpha on Jul 5, 2009 13:52:11 GMT -5
The problem with the pre-written or form letters is that I suspect most legislators despise them as much as I do. When I write to a legislator and get a canned answer from one, I often cannot even force myself to finish reading it. When I wrote to Jon Kyl about the immigration bill a couple of years ago, his one size fits all canned response literally enraged me. It would have been better in my opinion for him to have simply been honest with me and asked, "Who's the Senator here, you or me?" After all, the canned lawyers response that he sent to many of us, in effect conveyed essentially that message. It is my belief that rather than sending a canned content correspondence to our would-be rulers, you pull out the precepts from the form letter and formulate your own message. Even if they receive thousands of the canned messages, it is easier for them to discount them when they all say exactly the same thing with exactly the same wording, when only the names have been changed. A simple petition is probably as effective as the form letter. Please do not simply adopt someone else's words and sign your name to them. If you are concerned enough to contact your representatives, or misrepresentatives as the case may be, you should make it more personal. It need not be long and detailed. It need not be a thorough reasoning of the topic. If there are many writing to them on the same topic, there will be a number of others who's letters are expository and possibly even persuasive in nature. If you only parrot the words of others, then expect to be regarded not as a citizen, but as a parrot.
Perhaps, Busboy, the impact of spilled blood will have a longer lasting effect on all sides than a peaceful agreement between adversaries. I understand your position and think that it is well worth the effort to use persuasive words and a show of solidarity. Much can be accomplished this way. However, pain and pleasure is what cements memories. Pain could come in the form of an Atlas Shrugged style strike, or a violent revolt, regardless it must make a profound impact on an entire generation in order to bring about worthwhile change. A revolution does not need to effectively scrap an established framework to succeed. A revolution succeeds if it clarifies for those involved the question of living as a slave to rulers that they may have even elected for themselves, or living as free citizens enjoying liberty. It is most assuredly a continuous struggle, but one that is made all the more difficult by the nature of peace. Peace is often substituted for liberty. You can enjoy your family and your recreation to a certain degree, by accepting government intrusions and coercions. You allow confiscation of your product to subsidize sloth and incompetence, and in return the government does not seize you and all you own. This is a poor substitute for liberty, and you may not even realize it until your eyes are opened to the reality of just how far those you granted that power over you are willing to go to keep it. The harsh example of open revolt provides the needed clarification. A successful revolution may be carried out by a small number with a minority backing rather than a majority, if it serves to open the eyes of those who refused to awaken beforehand. It will also gain the attention of would-be tyrants who have ambition to rule those who believe they can purchase safety through an exchange of liberty.
What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants... - Thomas Jefferson
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