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Post by stoner44magnum on May 13, 2011 13:44:55 GMT -5
INDIANAPOLIS | Overturning a common law dating back to the English Magna Carta of 1215, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Hoosiers have no right to resist unlawful police entry into their homes. In a 3-2 decision, Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer's entry. Want to bet about this?? www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ec169697-a19e-525f-a532-81b3df229697.html
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Post by brocktownsend on May 13, 2011 13:53:24 GMT -5
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Post by Cujo on May 13, 2011 19:46:01 GMT -5
Sounds like they already practiced this in AZ with our 26 year old dead Marine.
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Post by Sedition on May 13, 2011 19:58:48 GMT -5
Sounds like there are going to have to be some "life lessons" taught to the gubment.
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Post by bigharry on May 13, 2011 20:44:34 GMT -5
What needs to happen, and I think it is just a matter of time, is for one of these over reaches of authority to be met with extreme prejudice. Once the gloves are completely off, the ensuing bad press (assuming "fair and balanced" reporting will cause many departments to rethink their gestapo policies. Remember that we are now (like it or not) being ruled by socialist administrations from the local level to Washington, and gestapos are the norm in these types of environments. During his 1945 election campaign Churchill stated that: "...a socialist policy is abhorrent to the British ideas of freedom. Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the object worship of the state. It will prescribe for every one where they are to work, what they are to work at, where they may go and what they may say. Socialism is an attack on the right to breathe freely. No socialist system can be established without a political police. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance."
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Post by brocktownsend on May 13, 2011 20:49:14 GMT -5
During his 1945 election campaign Churchill stated that: "...a socialist policy is abhorrent to the British ideas of freedom. Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the object worship of the state. It will prescribe for every one where they are to work, what they are to work at, where they may go and what they may say. Socialism is an attack on the right to breathe freely. No socialist system can be established without a political police. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance." ===== Good one.
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Post by hefferman1 on May 14, 2011 8:50:11 GMT -5
History has proved Churchill right. I like Brock think this will be overturned on appeal. www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.” However till then people need to be prepared to meet the thugs with force. A loaded AR-10 is setting next to my bed, and the XDM .45 is setting on the table next to it. Remember what G. Gordon Liddy said, "You are legally entitled to defend yourself and I was speaking of exactly those kind of situations. If you're going to do that, you should know that they're wearing body armor so you should use a head shot."
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Post by stoner44magnum on May 14, 2011 12:33:50 GMT -5
Gotta love G. Gordon ;D
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Post by brocktownsend on May 14, 2011 12:56:17 GMT -5
Can body armor repel a 12 gauge slug or double slug?
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Post by hefferman1 on May 14, 2011 15:40:30 GMT -5
Can body armor repel a 12 gauge slug or double slug? It depends. On the vest, what level of protection it provides and the ammo and range. For a normal slug the answer is yes, unless at very close range. A slug with a steel core, the answer is not at less than 30 yards. A level IV vest will stop a rifle round at range, if it is not AP, or FMJ. If the vest has plates it will stop a 5.56 AP, or a 7.62X39 AP at normal ranges. A .308/7.62 NATO AP will still go through the normal vest and plates. One more reason to like 7.62X51, or 7.62X54 AP rounds.
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Post by hefferman1 on May 14, 2011 15:44:06 GMT -5
Can body armor repel a 12 gauge slug or double slug? I forgot to mention 00 buck shot. The normal vest stops it. Flechette rounds seem to go through most vest, but the plates stop them.
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Post by brocktownsend on May 14, 2011 19:11:44 GMT -5
Can body armor repel a 12 gauge slug or double slug? I forgot to mention 00 buck shot. The normal vest stops it. Flechette rounds seem to go through most vest, but the plates stop them. My Saiga 12 is loaded with 10 double loads, 00 followed by a slug. They do also make it with a double slug load. If the vest has plates it will stop a 5.56 AP, or a 7.62X39 AP at normal ranges.But not if FMJ, correct?
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Post by hefferman1 on May 15, 2011 8:47:02 GMT -5
I forgot to mention 00 buck shot. The normal vest stops it. Flechette rounds seem to go through most vest, but the plates stop them. My Saiga 12 is loaded with 10 double loads, 00 followed by a slug. They do also make it with a double slug load. If the vest has plates it will stop a 5.56 AP, or a 7.62X39 AP at normal ranges.But not if FMJ, correct? The plates will stop the first couple of 5.56, or 7.62X39 rounds, even Armor Piercing. I have read of reports of plates stopping 7.62X51 AP, but they failed in the test we did. P.S. .50 cal goes through both sides of the vest and plate combo. The .45 AP rounds a friend made goes through the plate and vest at close range. He took the steel core of a 9mm and put it inside the .45 rounds lead core. He lost accuracy as the round was not balanced well, but at close range it went through the vest like BUTTER!!!!
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Post by avordvet on May 15, 2011 9:07:36 GMT -5
My Saiga 12 is loaded with 10 double loads, 00 followed by a slug. They do also make it with a double slug load. If the vest has plates it will stop a 5.56 AP, or a 7.62X39 AP at normal ranges.But not if FMJ, correct? The plates will stop the first couple of 5.56, or 7.62X39 rounds, even Armor Piercing. I have read of reports of plates stopping 7.62X51 AP, but they failed in the test we did. P.S. .50 cal goes through both sides of the vest and plate combo. The .45 AP rounds a friend made goes through the plate and vest at close range. He took the steel core of a 9mm and put it inside the .45 rounds lead core. He lost accuracy as the round was not balanced well, but at close range it went through the vest like BUTTER!!!! Any 7.62 FMJ should punch on through, especially the std M80 type round. Used to wear the "Second Chance" style body armor and with the plates, they were rated up to .30 cal. We took some of the plates to a range, and the steel core .308's would punch 'em like butter, didn't give me a warm fuzzy since the bad guys were using the 'ole 12.5+ as their Triple-A heavy weapon.
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Post by the1badger on May 16, 2011 8:55:38 GMT -5
Funny thing, those openings around the eyes, ears and nose are rarely well protected.
People really do not like being shot in the general area of their head.
Got a boogie in your nose?
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Post by hefferman1 on May 16, 2011 16:47:12 GMT -5
The plates will stop the first couple of 5.56, or 7.62X39 rounds, even Armor Piercing. I have read of reports of plates stopping 7.62X51 AP, but they failed in the test we did. P.S. .50 cal goes through both sides of the vest and plate combo. The .45 AP rounds a friend made goes through the plate and vest at close range. He took the steel core of a 9mm and put it inside the .45 rounds lead core. He lost accuracy as the round was not balanced well, but at close range it went through the vest like BUTTER!!!! Any 7.62 FMJ should punch on through, especially the std M80 type round. Used to wear the "Second Chance" style body armor and with the plates, they were rated up to .30 cal. We took some of the plates to a range, and the steel core .308's would punch 'em like butter, didn't give me a warm fuzzy since the bad guys were using the 'ole 12.5+ as their Triple-A heavy weapon. Is that 7.62X51, or 7.62X54? They will go through the vest like butter, but some plates will stop the first round. The .308 is almost like a 7.62X51, just a little less power behind the round. Steel core, or AP is not the same as FMJ. Armor Piercing/Steel Core ammo is the same. FMJ is lead core with a jacket. The ceramic plates stop the first round of 7.62X51, but none after wards. The same type of plate stopped three 5.56 green tips. A metal plate has to be thick and hardened to stop AP rounds. A 12.5 is just a shade bigger than a .50 cal. so yes it will go through a lot of stuff.
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