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Post by brocktownsend on Nov 1, 2009 16:04:45 GMT -5
British Report: 5.56 & 7.62 www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=3196"Bullets used by British soldiers 'too small to defeat Taliban'. Not only is 5.56 too small, but the entire Enfield L85 (aka SA80) bullpup development and procurement program has been a foul-up from day one. I suppose that it is time to break out some L1A1s from their war reserve arsenal. That is, assuming they still have a few hundred thousand of them... There may not be that many. Many thousands of L1A1 parts kits that came into the US in the early 1990s. The rifles were sold off by the short-sighted British government. Their full-auto receivers were slagged, but thankfully all of the rest of the parts were then legal to sell in the US as surplus."
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Post by hefferman1 on Nov 1, 2009 20:44:44 GMT -5
Who would have thunk it? Some of us have been say this for years. It is time to go to a 7.62X51, or a 7.62X54 with a piston design. AKA M1a with a straight stock.
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Post by nwtimmy on Nov 3, 2009 20:47:25 GMT -5
I challenge anyone who thinks that a car door stops that round to stand behind a car door and let me take a shot at them. Yes, the 5.56 has it's limitations, but it also has it's advantages. The Brits just have a worthless weapon. I haven't heard many US troops complaining about it. There are always some, but all of the guys I know that were in the sand box, don't have anything bad to say.
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Post by brocktownsend on Nov 4, 2009 20:58:28 GMT -5
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Post by cdtracing on Nov 4, 2009 23:06:23 GMT -5
I don't have the time to get into a debate with the folks on another board but I have tried to break my M-forgery on purpose a few times. I even did a class shooting 1400 rounds in two days without cleaning or oiling the rifle. The M16/AR15 is just like any other piece of machinery, it needs to be maintained with regular parts replacment. Gas piston systems are a good improvement but the impingement also works. Unlike conventional gas-operated firearms, direct impingement does away with a separate gas cylinder, piston, and operating rod assembly. High-pressure gas acts directly upon the bolt and carrier thereby saving weight, lowering costs, and reducing the mass of the operating parts. The main disadvantage of direct impingement is that the breech of the firearm becomes fouled more quickly. This is caused by solids from the high-temperature gas condensing as they cool and being deposited on the bolt face and primary operating mechanism. Combustion gases contain vaporized metals, carbon, and impurities in a gaseous state until they contact cooler operating parts. Thorough and frequent cleaning is required to ensure reliability. The amount of fouling depends upon the rifle's design as well as the type of propellant powder used. I have and use both style rifles but I haven't used the piston rifle enough to say it performs any better. The only significant advantage for me to use a piston rifle is with my suppersor. I do not get as much gas blowing back into my face as I do with the impingement rifle. ETA...I am a certified M16/AR15 armorer.
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Post by Bowhunter on Nov 6, 2009 21:05:11 GMT -5
all machines are machines - just things and each one has a purpose you have a good operator and a machine applied correctly it does the job - I like 5.56 for some purposes and used accuratley it will perform... I love my 308's --- accurate does the job anytime and will do it effectiley at longer ranges... either work..but I choose either for different tasks.. tools... keep em running -- in a gun fight that is your job.
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Post by hefferman1 on Nov 9, 2009 23:21:10 GMT -5
I challenge anyone who thinks that a car door stops that round to stand behind a car door and let me take a shot at them. Yes, the 5.56 has it's limitations, but it also has it's advantages. The Brits just have a worthless weapon. I haven't heard many US troops complaining about it. There are always some, but all of the guys I know that were in the sand box, don't have anything bad to say. How about hitting someone with three rounds before they go down? 3 center mass, and he fired back. I learned to aim for the head with a M-16. Shot placement is very important with a smaller round that has less energy. I have also seen round bounce off a windshield with 5.56, not go through a car door, and be stopped dead by a cinder block wall when filled with concrete. As for US troops not complaining, have you talked to them about it? I have and several have complained, about a weapon that jams and has little stopping power.
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Post by avordvet on Nov 10, 2009 6:29:25 GMT -5
Although the AR platform is one of my favorites, I still built an AR around the 7.62x39 for a little more power.
But after others on this board got me thinking about some heavy long distance power, I pulled down my M1 Garand and started the modernization process... 30.06 will punch through just about anything.
Just gotta locate the "right" ammo... need to find a stash of Steel Core or AP.
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Post by mycar47562 on Nov 10, 2009 7:28:28 GMT -5
556 DOES SEEM TO BE TO SMALL, BUT IF WE MOVE TO A BIGGER ROUND THEN WE MOVE BACK INTO THE OLD PROBLEM OF TO MUCH RECOIL, HOW MIGHT WE HANDLE THAT?
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Post by avordvet on Nov 10, 2009 8:06:38 GMT -5
Muzzle Breaks... there is one I am looking at for the Garand that reduces muzzle rise by 100% and reduces recoil by 40%. www.nokick.com/Muzzle_Brakes_Compensators_s/32.htmBuilt up a AR in 7.62x39 I added a Flash Suppressor/Compensator to the upper and it works great, although it is not even a full muzzle break it definitely helps with control. Whereas the one for the Garand is a true ported "muzzle break". In addition there are numerous ways to help absorb the recoil... modified stocks, extra padding, etc.
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Post by brocktownsend on Nov 10, 2009 12:15:20 GMT -5
Although the AR platform is one of my favorites, I still built an AR around the 7.62x39 for a little more power. But after others on this board got me thinking about some heavy long distance power, I pulled down my M1 Garand and started the modernization process... 30.06 will punch through just about anything. Just gotta locate the "right" ammo... need to find a stash of Steel Core or AP. You might keep an eye on ATG, as they have a separate thread for that. None in your caliber now, but that do carry different ones at times, as I have bought 7.62x39 there before. AP & Steel Core Penetrator Ammo www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/ap-steel-core-penetrator-ammo
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Post by mycar47562 on Nov 10, 2009 15:57:27 GMT -5
MAN THOSE ARE SOME EXPENSIVE BREAKS
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Post by NCFREEDOM on Nov 11, 2009 9:41:31 GMT -5
how difficult is it to convert a AR that fires 5.56 witha new upper that fires a .308?
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Post by NCFREEDOM on Nov 11, 2009 10:00:43 GMT -5
how difficult is it to convert a AR that fires 5.56 witha new upper that fires a .308?
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Post by avordvet on Nov 11, 2009 14:52:26 GMT -5
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Post by avordvet on Nov 11, 2009 15:09:57 GMT -5
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Post by brocktownsend on Nov 11, 2009 15:17:37 GMT -5
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Post by avordvet on Nov 11, 2009 15:22:45 GMT -5
The M1 Garand? I'm "modernizing" one right now, actually torn up about keeping it in 30.06 or getting it re-barreled into .308.
But the M-14 is a weapon I used on the Rifle Team and also carried it in different environments while in the service.
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Post by brocktownsend on Nov 11, 2009 15:27:15 GMT -5
The M1 Garand? I'm "modernizing" one right now, actually torn up about keeping it in 30.06 or getting it re-barreled into .308. But the M-14 is a weapon I used on the Rifle Team and also carried it in different environments while in the service. Yep, left that out. Like the carbine also.
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Post by avordvet on Nov 11, 2009 15:32:35 GMT -5
I've fired the M1 Carbine a few times, a good rifle with a great following but I don't know, it just never really sent a tingle up my leg...
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Post by brocktownsend on Nov 11, 2009 15:34:56 GMT -5
I've fired the M1 Carbine a few times, a good rifle with a great following but I don't know, it just never really sent a tingle up my leg... I had the M-2, I guess I was fond of it because it was so small.
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Post by hefferman1 on Nov 11, 2009 22:22:35 GMT -5
556 DOES SEEM TO BE TO SMALL, BUT IF WE MOVE TO A BIGGER ROUND THEN WE MOVE BACK INTO THE OLD PROBLEM OF TO MUCH RECOIL, HOW MIGHT WE HANDLE THAT? AR in .308/7.62X51 are straight stock like the normal AR and the recoil doesn't move you as far off target. If a good muzzle break is used it is very good. When it gives you 300-500 yards of accurate fire advantage it is worth it. ;D
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Post by themachine on Nov 11, 2009 22:46:15 GMT -5
556 DOES SEEM TO BE TO SMALL, BUT IF WE MOVE TO A BIGGER ROUND THEN WE MOVE BACK INTO THE OLD PROBLEM OF TO MUCH RECOIL, HOW MIGHT WE HANDLE THAT? Learn to use a sling properly, along with correct body positioning and Steady Hold Factors (SHF). You'd be surprised what a difference it makes. My brother-in-law refuses to use a sling, and the last time we shot his .50 cal. black powder rifle with a hot load, he thought he had a solid position when the shot broke, the bloody ring around his eye from the scope told the tale.
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Post by brocktownsend on Nov 11, 2009 22:49:58 GMT -5
556 DOES SEEM TO BE TO SMALL, BUT IF WE MOVE TO A BIGGER ROUND THEN WE MOVE BACK INTO THE OLD PROBLEM OF TO MUCH RECOIL, HOW MIGHT WE HANDLE THAT? Learn to use a sling properly, along with correct body positioning and Steady Hold Factors (SHF). You'd be surprised what a difference it makes. My brother-in-law refuses to use a sling, and the last time we shot his .50 cal. black powder rifle with a hot load, he thought he had a solid position when the shot broke, the bloody ring around his eye from the scope told the tale. Definitely, and that was the rule on the rifle team in military school.
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