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Post by brocktownsend on Apr 24, 2009 23:11:43 GMT -5
(the29thtn, SWR. This is from a hard core reenactor who does scripted/unscripted events duplicating actual battles played out over two days in the field. BT) "Also of interest. A police officer came up to us, Confederates, and started talking about how bad things are and how there is going to be a revolution and whichever side the military takes is going to come out on top."
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Post by mwregion on Apr 25, 2009 14:00:48 GMT -5
It's surprising to see how much it's beeing talked about.
At bars. At baseball games. Gunshops. Every where you go someone is talking about what's going to happen. Just look at the amount of new gunsales this year.
People feel it.
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Post by brocktownsend on Apr 25, 2009 14:21:27 GMT -5
It's surprising to see how much it's beeing talked about. At bars. At baseball games. Gunshops. Every where you go someone is talking about what's going to happen. Just look at the amount of new gunsales this year. People feel it. Yes, and the mention by the police officer isn't the first time one of them have stated such; active duty military also. I don't know if you caught it yesterday, but they are now two to three years behind on black rifles! That is just mind boggling to think that all they can manufacture in this time frame have already been spoken for, but there is, at this time, plenty of AK's, and they'll do the job, needless to say. Postby ed on Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:00 pm I have over 100 sigs on order and its a crap shoot I get them when they decide. I wish I could give you a better answer but it is like this with all mfg. now 4-6 months behind on most handguns 2-3 years on black rifles. We do have lots of old orders in so we get some stuff in every day.
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Post by 2ncrca on Apr 25, 2009 14:22:35 GMT -5
As far as the military is concerned I personally believe that servicemen and women will be divided on the issues and will move toward the side they personally support. This same move took place at the outset of the Civil War and will happen again. Keep in mind that a high percentage of the military is politically conservative. Would they support a regime committed to encroaching on individual rights? While some upper level military officers may be more politically oriented than others I would not anticipate wholesale support of a left wing government. My opinion is likewise supportive of similar alignment of federal and local law enforcement perhaps not to the same degree as the military, but there would be a significant number who would not support suppression of personal freedoms.
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Post by brocktownsend on Apr 25, 2009 14:32:21 GMT -5
As far as the military is concerned I personally believe that servicemen and women will be divided on the issues and will move toward the side they personally support. This same move took place at the outset of the Civil War and will happen again. Keep in mind that a high percentage of the military is politically conservative. Would they support a regime committed to encroaching on individual rights? While some upper level military officers may be more politically oriented than others I would not anticipate wholesale support of a left wing government. My opinion is likewise supportive of similar alignment of federal and local law enforcement perhaps not to the same degree as the military, but there would be a significant number who would not support suppression of personal freedoms. Yes, and reminds me of an active duty officer on another forum who had a running debate with my friend over the right of secession with the officer stating that it wasn't legal. Well, one day out of the blue, after one too many from Hussein, he stated that if he was told to confiscate weapons, he would resign his commission and join the new Confederate States of America! Got a kick out of that. "If a state does not have a right to secede, then the U.S.A. is just another empire based on nothing but military force. And, like all empires based on military force, it will collapse as soon as it can't pay its forces to maintain the occupation."Vox Popol, April 23, 2009
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Post by 2ncrca on Apr 25, 2009 15:05:29 GMT -5
As far as the military is concerned I personally believe that servicemen and women will be divided on the issues and will move toward the side they personally support. This same move took place at the outset of the Civil War and will happen again. Keep in mind that a high percentage of the military is politically conservative. Would they support a regime committed to encroaching on individual rights? While some upper level military officers may be more politically oriented than others I would not anticipate wholesale support of a left wing government. My opinion is likewise supportive of similar alignment of federal and local law enforcement perhaps not to the same degree as the military, but there would be a significant number who would not support suppression of personal freedoms. Yes, and reminds me of an active duty officer on another forum who had a running debate with my friend over the right of secession with the officer stating that it wasn't legal. Well, one day out of the blue, after one too many from Hussein, he stated that if he was told to confiscate weapons, he would resign his commission and join the new Confederate States of America! Got a kick out of that. "If a state does not have a right to secede, then the U.S.A. is just another empire based on nothing but military force. And, like all empires based on military force, it will collapse as soon as it can't pay its forces to maintain the occupation."Vox Popol, April 23, 2009 Great story and by all means credible. I believe many of our so-called reps will begin to bite their fingernails when they discover how many of our service personnel whether military or law enforcement are not government controlled robots.
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Post by Bowhunter on Apr 25, 2009 23:05:38 GMT -5
The administration is already trying to ignore what is happening (in public) and has been doing internal sabre rattling - expect more - they are trying to get thier ducks in a row..
Kurt Vonnegut - an eternal liberal, a foolish man who ignores the tribulation of his own Jewish people - none the less an excellent story teller would say
Hi - Ho! I believe it is an expression of acceptance and casting ones fate on the wind.
Something we cannot afford... we must be dilligent in our efforts.
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Post by philt on Apr 26, 2009 10:30:11 GMT -5
The recent DHS report is just another left wing tool intended to scare law abiding citizens to comply with the governments wishes out of fear of retaliation for opposing the left wing coup. Unfortunately any civil unrest will pit neighborhood against neighborhood, neighbor against neighbor. People living in left wing neighborhoods have the most to fear. The gestapo's and brown shirts are currently taking names. Keep the powder dry and be on red alert.
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Post by 2ncrca on Apr 26, 2009 13:41:16 GMT -5
I believe that each camp should have at least one person assigned to checking current events and local county and municipal commission agendas and minutes of meetings in order to bring attention to matters which could pass unnoticed. The left is experienced in stealth tactics and will employ them whenever possible.
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yankeespirit76
Full Member
Hold on Constitution...we're coming!
Posts: 99
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Post by yankeespirit76 on Apr 26, 2009 18:03:02 GMT -5
I believe in our Military folks to side with "We the People" if anything happens. Having said that, I remember seeing a documentary filmed as it happened of our Soldiers and Police officers in LA. after Katrina. The cops didn't seem too upset about confiscating weapons by kicking in doors and pushing old ladies around, but the soldiers (NG) were very upset about it. A few of them said they were physically sickened by walking down American streets in full combat readiness. The thing that really bothered me was that even though they mostly all felt that way...not one of them refused their orders to do it. But walking down our streets, and actually firing on us are two different things. I don't believe that most of them would.
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Post by brocktownsend on Apr 26, 2009 18:08:14 GMT -5
Well, if we get half on our side, that is all we need. The Communists would have to back down.
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ironwill
State District POC
Denver Colorado District POC
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. ? Tacitus
Posts: 201
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Post by ironwill on Apr 26, 2009 22:02:03 GMT -5
I believe a majority of our military members know it's coming. I've found a few videos such as the one below floating around. The Oath Keeper movement is also spreading. I'm encouraged by these things.
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Post by wotnwabbit on Apr 27, 2009 11:18:10 GMT -5
I believe a majority of our military members know it's coming. I've found a few videos such as the one below floating around. The Oath Keeper movement is also spreading. I'm encouraged by these things. That video is highly suspect. When you watch, note that the marine's head never moves, not once. Examine the mask closely. I believe it is a video of a still picture of a marine that has been photoshopped and poorly done at that. It's just my opinion, but It appears to me that some loon has falsified a video in order to promote his opinion under false pretenses. Believe little of what you might see and less of what you read.
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Post by brocktownsend on Apr 27, 2009 11:24:21 GMT -5
I believe a majority of our military members know it's coming. I've found a few videos such as the one below floating around. The Oath Keeper movement is also spreading. I'm encouraged by these things. That video is highly suspect. When you watch, note that the marine's head never moves, not once. Examine the mask closely. I believe it is a video of a still picture of a marine that has been photoshopped and poorly done at that. It's just my opinion, but It appears to me that some loon has falsified a video in order to promote his opinion under false pretenses. Believe little of what you might see and less of what you read. He's made more since then. When first seen, many had the same questions, but the general consensus is that he is the real deal, and this has been posted on Oath Keepers. At any rate, a well spoken man.
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Post by nwtimmy on Apr 28, 2009 0:32:09 GMT -5
even if he is a fake, he's got a great message. It works for me.
I've seen a lot of polls on other forums asking what the military members would do. Less than 10% said they would follow any orders that had them take action against the american people. The police officers, on the other hand, said (mostly) that if they're told to uphold a law, even if it's unconstitutional, they'll do it.
Those guys are first on my list.
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Post by tomfernandez on Apr 28, 2009 7:02:36 GMT -5
He's not fake.
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Post by aronatbc on Apr 28, 2009 8:11:50 GMT -5
Those guys are first on my list. You don't cure a disease by erasing the symptoms. You kill the virus itself. Those who give the orders in contravention of their just powers, those who make unConstitutional Laws, those who legislate from the bench and make a complete mockery of our judicial process... Those people are the real disease. Larry Lawdog is "just following orders". More than likely, he doesn't like those orders any more than we do. The really bad apples in the law enforcement community will weed themselves out in due course. Stay safe... Remember your OpSec.
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Post by spy1 on Apr 28, 2009 9:08:05 GMT -5
Let me point out a couple of things:
Making statements such as nwtimmy's : "The police officers, on the other hand, said (mostly) that if they're told to uphold a law, even if it's unconstitutional, they'll do it.
Those guys are first on my list." is
(1) totally un-substantiated as to its' factualness ( an opinion, IOW, and not necessarily fact). There are no polls/studies of all the police officers in the country to back that up.
(2) absolutely guaranteed to make this site and our organization look bad - to the authorities and the general public.
Not to mention the fact that any L.E.-types reading it are going to make sure that your statement about what they'll "do" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Instilling and projecting a "cop-killer" image is totally counter-productive to and the complete antithesis of what (I think) this website and organization are all about. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).
I would also be cautious about fooling ourselves into believing - or counting on - the "fact" that a majority of the military would actively be on our side should domestic hostilities break out, because
(1) you fire on the military and you automatically are the "enemy". Soldiers take care of and watch out for their own - their buddies.
(2) the "make-up" of the military, in recent years, has become a source of concern for even the brass themselves. I'm talking about the "dis-proportionate minority enlistment" problem that no one seems to want to talk about. Between that and the "gang-member enlistment' problems currently happening, you need to think about the fact that there are probably significant military elements that would enjoy being given the "order" to dis-arm/put down the American population.
Let me tell you this: watch what you say on this forum. It's really easy to spout off, act big and bad on the Internet (especially if you think their aren't consequences involved).
That is not the case.
We are "judged" by what we say and how we act - try to remember that.
It's a whole lot harder to fight this fight the way it needs to be fought right now - through political action on YOUR part.
CONTACTING State and Federal legislator's every single time it's needed;
Intelligent VOTING at every election;
Actively working to defeat candidates you know are bad for this country and its' Constitution
Yes, it's work - but it's work that NEEDS to be done. The sooner we all realize this, the better our chances will be to effect real change without resorting to violence.
I'm as game as the next guy/gal for a fight if the government forces our hand through attempted confiscation or a declaration of martial law. I am ready, willing and able to march on our State capitols if a new A.W.B or an H.R. 45-type legislation gets passed. I am ready and willing to totally disobey any order to "register" my weapons or ammunition - but I will do these things in the natural order in which they must occur, exhausting the potential of each before progressing to the next step. Because, above all, I owe a peaceful, not "blood-shedding" course of action to my wife, my children and my grandchildren - if those measures serve to keep us free.Pete
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Post by Patriots Support on Apr 28, 2009 9:32:29 GMT -5
Well said Pete, +1
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Post by therev on Apr 28, 2009 9:58:13 GMT -5
Here, here! Plus one, Pete.
OpSec, ladies and gentlemen. OpSec.
The Rev
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Post by brocktownsend on Apr 28, 2009 10:22:06 GMT -5
"The police officers, on the other hand, said (mostly) that if they're told to uphold a law, even if it's unconstitutional, they'll do it."
Repulsive.
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Post by nwtimmy on Apr 28, 2009 18:45:09 GMT -5
Sorry guys, I got a little impulsive. I'll be more careful in the future.
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Post by jerome on Apr 29, 2009 3:21:51 GMT -5
+1 Pete
And nwtimmy, do you have any LEO friends where u live? I know a few (and am currently trying to become a LEO myself...). All of them that i have talked to about this subject agree with us. If a law was passed that had disarming the US as it's goal it's not going to work the way the communists in DC plan. The break down (IMHO) will be about 50-50 among law enforcement and about 75-25 among military. LEO complaince will be higher in some areas than others and when you look at rural america it will be next to nothing at all. There's way too many people in this country who understand that gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. If the people have no way to fight for their rights then within one generation the people will have no rights. That's why there has been such a fight to make gun control one of the Politically Correct issues over the last 40+ years. First you start with the schools, raising the next generation of voters to believe that GUNS are the cause of CRIME. As CRIME goes up the the MSM starts crying that it's due to a rise in the number of GUNS. According to this math GUNS=CRIME and CRIME=PROBLEM therefor GUNS=PROBLEM. They never mention the fact that the crime rates in states and cities with lax gun laws (and i use the term lax here in the loosest way i can due to the 40000+ gun laws on the books in the US) have lower crime rates while gun control utopia's like DC, Chicago, NY, and LA all have crime rates that are double and sometimes triple of other locations across the nation. It's gotten to the point where some parents actually have been visited by Child Services JUST because their child mentions the fact that "daddy owns a gun" or "i've shot dads gun".
The fight we are in has many sides, we have to keep up hope and fight for every square inch. Teach your kids about guns, talk to you neighbors about them if the chance arises. Explain to everyone you can that without the 2ND amendment all the others are just words. Do your research in advance, i can't remember the names of the authors but some stuff i got online are "Gun Facts version 4.2", "Stopping Power", and a paper called "The Human Right of Self Defense". They all have great stuff in them that none of the anti-gunners will know and i know there are a lot more resources out there. Most liberal arguements will fall apart when confronted with hard facts, they might not change their mind but anyone listening who's not sure will see which side has the high ground. Also, if anyone would like copies of the papers i mentioned or if you have one you think i would like feel free to msg me and i'll email them to you since i have no clue where i got them from.
My moto: Hope for the best and prepare for the worst, and all your suprises will be pleasant ones.
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Post by nwtimmy on Apr 29, 2009 6:31:12 GMT -5
Jerome - First, good luck with the LEO thing. I know it can be a challenge to get into that line of work.
Second. I do know LEOs up here. I don't know that I would call them friends, more of mutual acquaintances. I've gotten into this conversation with two of them. One was on the fence, which usually means, they'll cave to peer/work pressure....which ever way that goes. The other was one of those "hero" cops. You know the guys...out fighting crime one parking ticket at a time. The kind of guys that make up stories or inflate them to sound cooler.
Anyways, that guy was all about upholding the law. When I asked him "what if the law is unconstitutional?" first he looked a little puzzled, then came out with "the law is the law. If you break it, I'll be there to arrest you."
That's the guy I'm worried about. Sorry if I lump all of the officers together...I understand there are the good and bad, just like any other walk of life. When I made that statement, I was making the assumption that the cops making the right decisions wouldn't be the ones going door to door confiscating guns.
I don't want to say too much more for fear saying the wrong thing, but I hope I cleared up my point of view a little bit better.
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Post by thombuzard on Apr 29, 2009 9:03:54 GMT -5
Dear nwtimmy,
Your opinions are important. in my opinion you taint our real purpose here by remarks like "Those guys are first on my list. " We are here to develop a call list in the event of an emergency and to protect the 2nd Amendment.
I think when it comes down to real action required by us that the police will not be our biggest problem. It may well be within our own ranks.
I understand your frustration and anger at our current government but we must follow the examples set by our founding fathers and use reason and muster the people before we talk of other means.
Keep your powder dry.
Your brother in arms.
Thom
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Post by Patriots Support on Apr 29, 2009 9:07:18 GMT -5
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Post by brocktownsend on Apr 29, 2009 11:45:01 GMT -5
These two videos are a must to show the "gun violence" crowd. Irrefutable. I wish we could get the cop in front of the thieves to show them. They may have been posted before, but...... Videos: Cop Describes Assault Rifles & 2nd Amend Ding dong! I guess it would be helpful if I provided the links! (For all your brain dead liberal friends. BT)www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjM9fcEzSJ0(Below kindness of Billy. BT) Suzanna Gratia-Hupp: What The Second Amendment Is REALLY For video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675&pr=goog-sl
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Post by jerome on Apr 29, 2009 17:02:45 GMT -5
Something else you have to keep in mind. Not all the cops that will be knocking on doors are going to force u to give up your guns. A friend of mine was telling me today about his best friend (who is a LEO). This guy said that if that order comes down he will go door to door asking "Do you have any guns you WANT to turn in?"
And thanks for the links guys....
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Post by brocktownsend on Apr 29, 2009 17:25:24 GMT -5
Something else you have to keep in mind. Not all the cops that will be knocking on doors are going to force u to give up your guns. A friend of mine was telling me today about his best friend (who is a LEO). This guy said that if that order comes down he will go door to door asking "Do you have any guns you WANT to turn in?" And thanks for the links guys.... I imagine that will be the case in all small towns.
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Post by therev on May 1, 2009 13:58:16 GMT -5
I'd love nothing better than for LEOs around here to get such an order, and then go around asking if anyone "wanted" to turn in any guns. And it stands to reason that a LEO who'd do something like that, could be more for us -- when it really matters -- than against us.
That would truly be nice.
The Rev
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