|
Post by brocktownsend on Sept 18, 2009 12:38:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by NCFREEDOM on Sept 18, 2009 14:07:04 GMT -5
This has been my thoughts lately as well. Are they prepared to lay their lives down for a un-Godly, anti-constittuional mission? How many are they willing to sacrifice? How many of these agents will turn on their superiors when their comrades that have been killed start to increase? I know I am awake every night recently at 3:30AM running scenerios through my head...how quick can I get to my side arm?, how many can I neutralize under the stress of adrenaline? Will my alarm system and dogs give me enough warning or can they neutralize them before I even hear them?
Queen Nancy has said that the political violence will turn bloody. Her's and the elite?, ours? or both?
I have also wondered what our true numbers are. Yes there are 90 million gun owners, but how many of those 90 million own a assault rifles, how many AR15's, SKS's, AK47"s etc are out there owned by freddom loving citizens? My sense is that there is only one reason you buy a weapon of that type and it ain't fo huntin'. I know I didn't, it was to protect my family and constitutional republic.
|
|
|
Post by trap115 on Sept 18, 2009 14:08:53 GMT -5
It ain't gonna be pretty but we will win /must win III !
|
|
|
Post by 2ncrca on Sept 18, 2009 14:21:53 GMT -5
In a SHTF situation don't expect the entry team to select the normal means of entry to your home. Doors are not always the most desirable route.
The problem as I see it is that the author of the paper views a resistance as having some form of centralized command structure which would prove to his mistake to be totally incorrect. There are enough veterans among those who would resist who could replace any leader that goes down. They are accustomed to the local command inherent in the US military system which allows combat decisions on the battlefield. Upper level leadership can be replaced as needed. The US vet is NOT dependent on a centralized command structure as that which served as the core of the old Soviet command structure.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Downing on Sept 18, 2009 14:54:29 GMT -5
What many think of as one of our biggest weaknesses may well be our greatest strength> I have heard that people think because we have no real noticable national and regional visible leaders and that we are made of many individual groups. That makes attack against us by quickly wiping out leaders an impossible task. They say that it weakens us because we can not centrally organize and be lead from a center of command. I say it makes us impossible to defeat in what will by its nature be a guerrilla war.
If needed as the struggle continues leaders will arise tried and tested from the heat of the struggle. We will not be defeated.
|
|
|
Post by brocktownsend on Sept 18, 2009 14:58:34 GMT -5
Everyone is right on.
|
|
|
Post by avordvet on Sept 18, 2009 16:36:18 GMT -5
Both 2ncrca and commander have hit some of the main points, there is no need for "leaders" per se as everyone that would be engaged knows the goals (restoration of the constitution or suppressing it) and the local fighters will pretty much know who the bad guys are.
In guerrilla warfare, should you have a hard command structure... it can be taken down and the movement decapitated, which usually takes awhile to rebuild. That is why a lot of movements around the world are set up in cells, take down one cell and it doesn't matter, the movement still moves forward.
The beauty of guerrilla warfare is that it is usually localized... local fighters and local supporters, both of which know the "norms" in their area, they know the people that belong there and they know the people that don't. The local fighters know the area/terrain and the "enemy" usually doesn't.
So take heart, the odds are usually stacked in the Guerrilla fighters favor, as the Brits found out in our not too distant past, and as the current batch of despots will soon learn should they continue on their repressive and unconstitutional path.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Downing on Sept 18, 2009 16:42:01 GMT -5
Amen to all...
|
|
|
Post by brocktownsend on Sept 18, 2009 20:13:47 GMT -5
This has been my thoughts lately as well. Are they prepared to lay their lives down for a un-Godly, anti-constittuional mission? How many are they willing to sacrifice? How many of these agents will turn on their superiors when their comrades that have been killed start to increase? I know I am awake every night recently at 3:30AM running scenerios through my head...how quick can I get to my side arm?, how many can I neutralize under the stress of adrenaline? Will my alarm system and dogs give me enough warning or can they neutralize them before I even hear them? Queen Nancy has said that the political violence will turn bloody. Her's and the elite?, ours? or both? I have also wondered what our true numbers are. Yes there are 90 million gun owners, but how many of those 90 million own a assault rifles, how many AR15's, SKS's, AK47"s etc are out there owned by freddom loving citizens? My sense is that there is only one reason you buy a weapon of that type and it ain't fo huntin'. I know I didn't, it was to protect my family and constitutional republic. "......but how many of those 90 million own a assault rifles, how many AR15's, SKS's, AK47"s etc are out there owned by freddom loving citizens? My sense is that there is only one reason you buy a weapon of that type and it ain't fo huntin'. I know I didn't, it was to protect my family and constitutional republic."Good point, and in my case on this date, I started exchanging. "And Now, After Sending Our Best Young Men To Die On distant battlefields fighting Communism, we may simply vote a Marxist into our highest office." 23 July 2008Remington 1100 for Saiga 12. Colt Python for two Glock 45s, 21 & 30. *Mauser '98 for Bulgarian AK. I wish I had kept *it, as this was my groundhog rifle, though a little overkill. Which reminds me, after the DC march, Dixie and I stayed with my friend in Mosby Country for a few days which is where I grew up from five on. We went to visit the uncle and father of my girlfriend from military school time. They are now 87 and 92 and during well. When I first saw the uncle who at 87 was baling hay, suntanned, looking most healthy, I said that the last time I saw him was around forty years ago, and that I had asked for permission to hunt groundhogs on his property (since I had done a sterling job on them on my father's farms), he stated with a gleam in his eye, that I still had it, as he still had them!
|
|
|
Post by jerome on Sept 19, 2009 1:22:37 GMT -5
It is my belief that a person doesn't have to have ANY of the fancy military style weapons (and by the way, I have seen people hunt with SK's, AK's, AND AR 15's). All you need is a weapon that you are comfortable with, that is reliable (everything works and sighted in), and most importantly THE WILL TO USE IT.
All you have to do is look through history, how many US soldiers were killed by the Japanese during WW2 with 22's? The 22 LR was their sniper weapon of choice, and they used them well. All I can say is keep training and keep going through all these situations in your head because when it happens you will already know what to do which will help to prevent you from freezing up.
And FYI: I'm not knocking the "scary black rifles", if I had a job right now I'd go out and buy some myself but they are only as good as the person using them and if you'd be good with it you would be just as good with any other quality weapon. As the Front Sight moto says, "Any gun will do if you will do"
|
|
|
Post by brocktownsend on Sept 19, 2009 11:07:28 GMT -5
It is my belief that a person doesn't have to have ANY of the fancy military style weapons (and by the way, I have seen people hunt with SK's, AK's, AND AR 15's). All you need is a weapon that you are comfortable with, that is reliable (everything works and sighted in), and most importantly THE WILL TO USE IT. All you have to do is look through history, how many US soldiers were killed by the Japanese during WW2 with 22's? The 22 LR was their sniper weapon of choice, and they used them well. All I can say is keep training and keep going through all these situations in your head because when it happens you will already know what to do which will help to prevent you from freezing up. And FYI: I'm not knocking the "scary black rifles", if I had a job right now I'd go out and buy some myself but they are only as good as the person using them and if you'd be good with it you would be just as good with any other quality weapon. As the Front Sight moto says, "Any gun will do if you will do" Precisely, and this post from a while back addresses this well. Tactics, Strategy, Timing, Logistics & N. B. Forrest www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=2960&highlight=mosin.....whether we are ready or not, whether everyone is one the same page of standardization and logistics or not, all wars are fought on a "come as you are" basis. Always have been, always will be. Take for example this excerpt from "Charge Both Ways": The Battle of Parker's Crossroads" by Steve A. Williams.
|
|
|
Post by hefferman1 on Sept 22, 2009 22:18:40 GMT -5
It is my belief that a person doesn't have to have ANY of the fancy military style weapons (and by the way, I have seen people hunt with SK's, AK's, AND AR 15's). All you need is a weapon that you are comfortable with, that is reliable (everything works and sighted in), and most importantly THE WILL TO USE IT. All you have to do is look through history, how many US soldiers were killed by the Japanese during WW2 with 22's? The 22 LR was their sniper weapon of choice, and they used them well. All I can say is keep training and keep going through all these situations in your head because when it happens you will already know what to do which will help to prevent you from freezing up. And FYI: I'm not knocking the "scary black rifles", if I had a job right now I'd go out and buy some myself but they are only as good as the person using them and if you'd be good with it you would be just as good with any other quality weapon. As the Front Sight moto says, "Any gun will do if you will do" How good is that .22 sniper rifle at 400 yards? Not very good at all. How good is a AR-15 in .223 at 700 yards? So so at best. How good is a .308 bolt action that is tuned right at 1000 yards? Still kicking. The black guns are alright for their purpose. I'll put 9 out of 10 in the head with iron sights at 500 yards, if the wind is not to bad. I still prefer a larger round with more hitting power and dependability. Have you ever been shot at and couldn't shoot back? It is not a good feeling. A .308 hunting rifle, that is tuned will nail merc after merc well beyond the range of their ARs, or AKs. 300 Yards of range on a AR and 500 yards of range on an AK can make a world of difference. Add a Ghillie Suit with IR protection into that and you can become a living nightmare to any Faciso-Socialist merc at a road block, coming out the door at a Socialist Government Building, or even just walking out the door on the way to work. Go watch the movie about Michael Collins, put in the idea of a leaderless, headless, and wide spread group of Apostles. That should make getting a good nights sleep an issue for the Socialist.
|
|
|
Post by freedom4all on Sept 22, 2009 23:28:03 GMT -5
Once again Ive learned more here on this forum and on this topic than I would have ever learned in college!!! Now,...time for research. Thanks Guys. GOD BLESS US ALL!
|
|
|
Post by jerome on Sept 24, 2009 1:59:59 GMT -5
I'm not saying I've got a problem with ar's or ak's, it's just that you don't have to have guns like that to fight. As far as .22's go I personally wouldn't want to fight using one but I would if I had to. For that matter if it comes down to fighting in the streets I think some people would do alright with .22's considering that it is all going to be close range and in an urban setting. There would be plenty of people on the ground to hold enemies attention and a handful of people in building shooting .22's from windows could do some serious damage if they are good shots (granted that this is all hypothetical considering the fact that I hope this never happens). As for me I've got my 12 gauge for CQB, my 30-06 for those targets that are a little farther out, and my .300 mag for those hard to reach targets. I'm not the best shot in the world but I can hit what I'm aiming at out to about 800 yards and as soon as I can get access to a 1000 yard range I'm going to see how well I do there. As always this is just my opinion and everyone's is going to be a little different, the bottom line is that if SHTF I'm not going to turn anyone away no matter what weapon they are using. If they are using something that is sub-par we can always get them another gun after the fight.
|
|
|
Post by avordvet on Sept 24, 2009 4:48:05 GMT -5
As long as someone is "comfortable" with their weapon of choice, it doesn't matter what is used. I've shot many courses out to 600 with the .223 and even some out to 1000. but its one of those, practice a couple of times a week things... Some people like the 'ole 30.06 bolt action, some like a semi-auto, some like me... anything I can get my hands on, although the AR platform is my favorite. But since I was "unhappy" with the bullet performance I re-chambered one into 7.62X39 which is still a very common round but with a little more punch than the 5.56. One thing I did notice the other day is that they have out sub-sonic .22 long rifle rounds at Wal-Mart, I had plenty of CB shorts, so now I have something that will actually cycle a LR semi-auto but stay sub-sonic... sweet!
|
|
|
Post by brocktownsend on Sept 24, 2009 10:42:54 GMT -5
As long as someone is "comfortable" with their weapon of choice, it doesn't matter what is used. I've shot many courses out to 600 with the .223 and even some out to 1000. but its one of those, practice a couple of times a week things... Some people like the 'ole 30.06 bolt action, some like a semi-auto, some like me... anything I can get my hands on, although the AR platform is my favorite. But since I was "unhappy" with the bullet performance I re-chambered one into 7.62X39 which is still a very common round but with a little more punch than the 5.56. One thing I did notice the other day is that they have out sub-sonic .22 long rifle rounds at Wal-Mart, I had plenty of CB shorts, so now I have something that will actually cycle a LR semi-auto but stay sub-sonic... sweet! Tactics, Strategy, Timing, Logistics & N. B. Forrest www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=2960&highlight=mosin+nagants"......whether we are ready or not, whether everyone is one the same page of standardization and logistics or not, all wars are fought on a "come as you are" basis. Always have been, always will be."
|
|
|
Post by philt on Sept 24, 2009 10:53:11 GMT -5
Just be sure to not keep all your arms and ammo in the same location. It is very difficult to choose which arms I want at home, and which I want at alternate locations. And how far away those alternate locations will be from the 20.
I have to assume if the shtf, travel as we know it now will not exist. Defensive posturing will be the rule before any other action.
|
|
|
Post by hefferman1 on Sept 25, 2009 20:30:40 GMT -5
I'm not saying I've got a problem with ar's or ak's, it's just that you don't have to have guns like that to fight. As far as .22's go I personally wouldn't want to fight using one but I would if I had to. For that matter if it comes down to fighting in the streets I think some people would do alright with .22's considering that it is all going to be close range and in an urban setting. There would be plenty of people on the ground to hold enemies attention and a handful of people in building shooting .22's from windows could do some serious damage if they are good shots (granted that this is all hypothetical considering the fact that I hope this never happens). As for me I've got my 12 gauge for CQB, my 30-06 for those targets that are a little farther out, and my .300 mag for those hard to reach targets. I'm not the best shot in the world but I can hit what I'm aiming at out to about 800 yards and as soon as I can get access to a 1000 yard range I'm going to see how well I do there. As always this is just my opinion and everyone's is going to be a little different, the bottom line is that if SHTF I'm not going to turn anyone away no matter what weapon they are using. If they are using something that is sub-par we can always get them another gun after the fight. I won't turn them away either. I'll just offer them a better rifle. Anyone that has issues with firing a AR, would be put to better use running ammo, and messages IMHO. If they are comfortable with it, I'll give them a larger caliber battle rifle. One of my goals is to have two full caches of arms ready and a limited armory (weapons, spare parts, and repair abilities) set up by the end of the year. I also want to have a foundry, and black smith shop set up by Feb. These things will be as important as what rifle you have IMHO. Try to always think at least two steps ahead.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Downing on Sept 25, 2009 20:51:48 GMT -5
There is a local gunsmith in this area of NC that builds all the custom AR's for sheriff and state police swat teams. He is a true genius and one hell of a craftsman. I had him look at a cahrles Daly 20ga camo pump that my son has. My son manged to totally break it down two or three times before he put it togther and it would not function. I took it apart and put it back together but could not find the problem. I dropped it off with the gunsmith and he located the problem and to save time and money he made the missing pin in his small machine shop and had the gun functioning in no time. He charged me all of $5.00 for the repair but the time spent with him on the two trips there in his shop were priceless. I would be willign to spend hours each week with him just absorbing as much as I could of what he has learned.
|
|
|
Post by jerome on Sept 25, 2009 21:56:28 GMT -5
[/quote]Anyone that has issues with firing a AR, would be put to better use running ammo, and messages IMHO. [/quote]
I have no problem with using an AR or AK, I've shot both on numerous occasions and they are great guns. To be perfectly honest I might even go out and buy one before the end of the year now that I am employed again. The only reason I was saying what I said is that I have heard from people (thankfully no one in A&M) that think you HAVE to have them in order to fight effectively and that I just don't buy. I understand their reasoning, they've listened to WAY too many liberals crying about the firepower of "military style" weapons and they haven't been around guns long enough to grasp the fact that the .223 isn't the be all end all of rifles rounds. In the right hands it is a great rifle in a great platform but it isn't something to go out and break the bank over just so you can have one. That's why I said just to use what you are comfortable with.
|
|
|
Post by 2ncrca on Sept 25, 2009 22:04:16 GMT -5
Anyone that has issues with firing a AR, would be put to better use running ammo, and messages IMHO. [/quote] [/quote]I have no problem with using an AR or AK, I've shot both on numerous occasions and they are great guns. To be perfectly honest I might even go out and buy one before the end of the year now that I am employed again. The only reason I was saying what I said is that I have heard from people (thankfully no one in A&M) that think you HAVE to have them in order to fight effectively and that I just don't buy. I understand their reasoning, they've listened to WAY too many liberals crying about the firepower of "military style" weapons and they haven't been around guns long enough to grasp the fact that the .223 isn't the be all end all of rifles rounds. In the right hands it is a great rifle in a great platform but it isn't something to go out and break the bank over just so you can have one. That's why I said just to use what you are comfortable with.[/quote] The firearm is only as effective as the person using it.
|
|
|
Post by brocktownsend on Sept 25, 2009 22:14:51 GMT -5
As long as someone is "comfortable" with their weapon of choice, it doesn't matter what is used. I've shot many courses out to 600 with the .223 and even some out to 1000. but its one of those, practice a couple of times a week things... Some people like the 'ole 30.06 bolt action, some like a semi-auto, some like me... anything I can get my hands on, although the AR platform is my favorite. But since I was "unhappy" with the bullet performance I re-chambered one into 7.62X39 which is still a very common round but with a little more punch than the 5.56. One thing I did notice the other day is that they have out sub-sonic .22 long rifle rounds at Wal-Mart, I had plenty of CB shorts, so now I have something that will actually cycle a LR semi-auto but stay sub-sonic... sweet! Tactics, Strategy, Timing, Logistics & N. B. Forrest www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=2960&highlight=mosin+nagants"......whether we are ready or not, whether everyone is one the same page of standardization and logistics or not, all wars are fought on a "come as you are" basis. Always have been, always will be."Which brings us back to the SSI link.
|
|
|
Post by avordvet on Sept 26, 2009 6:25:36 GMT -5
Anyone that has issues with firing a AR, would be put to better use running ammo, and messages IMHO. [/quote]I have no problem with using an AR or AK, I've shot both on numerous occasions and they are great guns. To be perfectly honest I might even go out and buy one before the end of the year now that I am employed again. The only reason I was saying what I said is that I have heard from people (thankfully no one in A&M) that think you HAVE to have them in order to fight effectively and that I just don't buy. I understand their reasoning, they've listened to WAY too many liberals crying about the firepower of "military style" weapons and they haven't been around guns long enough to grasp the fact that the .223 isn't the be all end all of rifles rounds. In the right hands it is a great rifle in a great platform but it isn't something to go out and break the bank over just so you can have one. That's why I said just to use what you are comfortable with.[/quote] The firearm is only as effective as the person using it.[/quote]
It is worth repeating... The firearm is only as effective as the person using it.You can have one of the most exotic and accurate weapons in the world, but if you don't "know" it or practice with it often, you'll find yourself on the short end of the stick, because later when it malfunctions (and it will, usually at the most inopportune time) or you find you can't hit anything beyond 100 yards (in rain, sleet, snow, wind) because you didn't practice or train enough... all you are left with is an expensive club. I once laid on the soaking wet ground every day for two solid weeks during a competition, firing at a target 500 yards away, with blowing rain and high cross winds coming in from the beach... I had to blow the water out of the M-14's peep sights before I made each shot, it was without a doubt one of the most miserable times I ever spent behind a weapon. Ended up placing high on the roster, with the conditions, a lot of people didn't place at all, but I had an "edge"... I had trained in similar conditions before, so I just sucked it up and shot.
|
|
|
Post by jerome on Sept 26, 2009 22:55:45 GMT -5
And that's what I am getting at. Who cares if it's raining or windy, shoot anyway, learn what it takes to make a shot in adverse conditions because you can't schedule when you need to use your weapons for defense so conditions might not be perfect and if you buy into Murphy's Law they will be about as far off from perfect as possible.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Downing on Sept 27, 2009 19:41:26 GMT -5
Give me an expensive club or a baseball bat or a pitch fork and when and if the time comes I'll use it to the best of my ability as required. The guns are there only if required.
|
|