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Post by brocktownsend on Jul 26, 2009 12:15:01 GMT -5
You resort to personal disrespect (Lincoln Jr.) and call my comment sad? You don't have to look far to see the results of the type of action you propose. The local news loves those stories. Probably not the best way to uphold the oath we took. But by all mean proceed. I'm proceeding on my path to teach those I can to take personal responsibility, to teach them how to take control of this government back, to teach them how to teach others. Good luck to you. I. I believe that we had the best form of government, but that it has been polluted by the Supreme Court, and probably not redeemable. II. "Violent or malicious acts will get attention, but will inevitably kill the very cause they were used to promote." I shall stick to my oath, and Lincoln, Jr. www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=98&highlight=sumter ain't gonna get me to do otherwise. www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=2744&highlight=oathkeepersMar 17, 2009 "I took my oath in 1966, and I shall stick by it, which means I shall use the Second Amendment for the purpose it was intended, and protect my family, and others from assault, whether it be from an individual or a government." Brock Townsend 10/'67 - 5/'69 USARV, 6/'69 - 09/'71 OICC/RVN+, 06/'73 - 25/04/'75 DAO, US Embassy RVN "And Now, After Sending Our Best Young Men To Die On distant battlefields fighting Communism, we may simply vote a Marxist into our highest office." 23 July 2008 III. 2ncra:
Man, that's sad. "You resort to personal disrespect (Lincoln Jr.) and call my comment sad?"I was referring to 2ncra's comments about his familiy. I attempted to answer three different posts by numbering them. As far as personal disrespect goes, I was merely calling Hussein a Tyrant just like Lincoln, who as well, was in charge of war criminals. Even *Sherman stated after the War, that their actions were criminal. * www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=248&highlight=shermanIII. 2ncra: Man, that's sad. You don't have to look far to see the results of the type of action you propose."What in the world are you talking about? You couldn't possibly be referring to my oath which refers only to defensive action. Oath Keepers wanted me to expand upon it, but I thought it was sufficient as stated. "......I shall use the Second Amendment for the purpose it was intended, and protect my family, and others from assault, whether it be from an individual or a government."
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Post by philt on Jul 26, 2009 17:38:52 GMT -5
I was thinking about something less destructive. Small roadside signs. I was thinking crosses with "Liberty" painted on them. Roadside Memorials, they're called around here.... there's no law against putting them up.....and it seemed like a good way to say " hey, they are killing your freedom." But, thinking it over for a couple of months now, I decided that I didn't want to put up Liberty's tombstone just yet, and decided against doing that. But something similar that would wake up people in their own neighborhoods. Some type of legal "graffiti"....billboards are too expensive.....I don't know.... but I do feel like a grassroots campaign where some symbolic thing is put out there for everyone to see and "wonder" about is needed. Might make them say " what's with all the (insert thing here) showing up everywhere?" Just making people talk to each other and ask questions might be enough to wake up many. thoughts?
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Post by philt on Jul 26, 2009 17:55:24 GMT -5
"graffiti"....billboards are too expensive.....I don't know....
but I do feel like a grassroots campaign where some symbolic thing is put out there for everyone to see and "wonder" about is needed. Might make them say " what's with all the (insert thing here) showing up everywhere?"
Just making people talk to each other and ask questions might be enough to wake up many.
thoughts?[/quote]
With all the empty billboards and a can of paint, a lot of messages can be delivered. A small risk on the legal side but a big eye opening, high visibility message can stimulate a lot of thought on the part of motorists.
To be effective, we must place doubt and insecurity in the minds of people so they question authority and start looking for answers beyond the official propaganda MSM wing of the White House and Capital. One would be surprised how many people HAVE NOT heard anything about birth certificates or Unconstitutional activitys and illegal transactions by members of congress. Or any other number of things we, ourselves, have become aware of by sidestepping the MSM.
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Post by 2ncrca on Jul 26, 2009 18:02:54 GMT -5
Why not the Liberty Tree or one such as in the Bunker Hill flag? It's easy enough to draw and can be done very quickly. A stencil could be made and spray-painted using the stencil.
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Post by georgiaowl on Jul 26, 2009 22:56:00 GMT -5
You may want to consider leaving biscuits instead...or make sure you don't leave them on your lunch break at least. Sooner or later, they will say " rock = threat." just saying.
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Post by busboy on Jul 26, 2009 23:42:15 GMT -5
I just had the pleasure of meeting Rand Paul and many other Liberty loving Americans. It really drives home the notion that as long as the "good Americans", those who love Liberty and want Liberty for their children and grand children, sit home and sulk, this nation will continue to decline. Some interesting numbers brought up. Rand Paul, Ron Paul's son, is considering a run for the US Senate, in Kentucky. He basically laid out that 50% of those eligible to vote, actually register. 50% of those who register, actually vote in the general election. Less than 10-20% of the registered voters vote in the Primaries. With @100,000 Republicans in Kentucky, that means that 20,000 votes might just win the primary, thus putting him on the ticket. Now if you feel that Rand Paul is a good candidate and would work to move this nation back toward Liberty (and I do), then this means there has to be enough educated, and woken up people to actually want to vote for him. Not just in the General election, but the Primary. We had another speaker, and he was very interesting! He spoke of spending about 10 hours a year becoming "Precinct Leader" for each of our precincts. The precinct leaders are the ones who select the county leaders and the county leaders are the ones who determine HOW the votes are counted in their county. They are also critical in determining the party leaders within the states. This means that controlling the precinct leader positions is the path to controlling/ensuring that your votes are being counted correctly. And a gateway to getting better folks in the party leadership positions within your state. There is an effort underway to 'nationalize' the "Take Back (your state)" movement. www.takebackkentucky.com/ as an example. There are good organizations within most states who are moving the pro-liberty agenda within their states, with many being very effective. This effectiveness will only increase with more good Americans waking up within each state and getting active. Very good meeting. Very good, dedicated people. The 'good' representatives need good people to support them. You must believe good representatives exists, else there is no reason for the Constitution, as there is no reason for a representative Republic. Good Americans will come from education and motivation, to overcome the ignorance, laziness and apathy which defines too many people. This education and motivation will only come from other Good Americans, like those folks here, awake and willing to help their fellow Americans get to that state of mind. The target for education needs to be our fellow Americans, not the representatives. The representatives need only be told how to represent us and then observed and held to the standards we expect from them. The educated, awake population will do that. If the people don't care, why should the reps?
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Post by dustonegt on Jul 26, 2009 23:42:27 GMT -5
Why not the Liberty Tree or one such as in the Bunker Hill flag? It's easy enough to draw and can be done very quickly. A stencil could be made and spray-painted using the stencil. Perhaps every person who wants to leave a rock choose their own statement? Not everybody is a three percenter, some people would want a Gadsden flag, some would want the 'appeal to heaven', and so on. What all would have in common is the rock. Thoughts?
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Post by brocktownsend on Jul 27, 2009 9:31:45 GMT -5
I just had the pleasure of meeting Rand Paul and many other Liberty loving Americans. It really drives home the notion that as long as the "good Americans", those who love Liberty and want Liberty for their children and grand children, sit home and sulk, this nation will continue to decline. Some interesting numbers brought up. Rand Paul, Ron Paul's son, is considering a run for the US Senate, in Kentucky. He basically laid out that 50% of those eligible to vote, actually register. 50% of those who register, actually vote in the general election. Less than 10-20% of the registered voters vote in the Primaries. With @100,000 Republicans in Kentucky, that means that 20,000 votes might just win the primary, thus putting him on the ticket. Now if you feel that Rand Paul is a good candidate and would work to move this nation back toward Liberty (and I do), then this means there has to be enough educated, and woken up people to actually want to vote for him. Not just in the General election, but the Primary. We had another speaker, and he was very interesting! He spoke of spending about 10 hours a year becoming "Precinct Leader" for each of our precincts. The precinct leaders are the ones who select the county leaders and the county leaders are the ones who determine HOW the votes are counted in their county. They are also critical in determining the party leaders within the states. This means that controlling the precinct leader positions is the path to controlling/ensuring that your votes are being counted correctly. And a gateway to getting better folks in the party leadership positions within your state. There is an effort underway to 'nationalize' the "Take Back (your state)" movement. www.takebackkentucky.com/ as an example. There are good organizations within most states who are moving the pro-liberty agenda within their states, with many being very effective. This effectiveness will only increase with more good Americans waking up within each state and getting active. Very good meeting. Very good, dedicated people. The 'good' representatives need good people to support them. You must believe good representatives exists, else there is no reason for the Constitution, as there is no reason for a representative Republic. Good Americans will come from education and motivation, to overcome the ignorance, laziness and apathy which defines too many people. This education and motivation will only come from other Good Americans, like those folks here, awake and willing to help their fellow Americans get to that state of mind. The target for education needs to be our fellow Americans, not the representatives. The representatives need only be told how to represent us and then observed and held to the standards we expect from them. The educated, awake population will do that. If the people don't care, why should the reps? Rand Paul Running For The Senate Speaks At Knob Creek, Kentucky 2009 (Don't Miss This!)www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=2582&highlight=rand(Read below, and weep. BT) "It is upon a reckless people: squalid in their demeanor, stupid and arrogant in their politics, economics and military matters; sleazy in their popular culture the savage judgment of history will be rendered. The verdict will be guilty. The penalty will be death, for the people, the institutions and culture which so openly mocks all that is just and true and good about the American Republic. Like Rome, we have replaced Republic with Empire and, like Rome, we will pay the economic price for our folly." - Doug McIntosh, "The Economic Farce is Ending", June 5, 2005 www.youtube.com/watch?v=owwsxPAyPYU
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Post by warbird1 on Jul 27, 2009 13:30:51 GMT -5
Today we have absolute power and control over our government, Do you really believe this? Just try to voice yourself to one of these Gov. morons. You'll be tossed or arrested!!!
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Post by Michael Downing on Jul 27, 2009 22:36:17 GMT -5
I must say the conversation has been lively. As one who had ancestors lad here in the early to mid 1600's and a family history kept from that day and passed from genertaion to generation I can tell you (with Michael Vicks released to play football today) I feel I have dog in this fight. My ever so humble opinion is that everyone is right so we can quit the arguement. We can and should be able to work within the system to take this country back. The frame work has been laid out for us and only a fool would not use it to their fullest ablity to defeat the enemy.
Beyond that there is more than a good chance that thsi action will not succeed so a secondary plan is necessary and that is how to defend our liberty when it is required. Those details can never be fully discussed here and need to be dealt with on a local and then state level. There is a whole lot that could be said but it all comes down to pray for the best and prepare for the worst. If you are from NC and there is a chance we can meet face to face and talk and share contact information beyond the call tree send me a message on this site. I believe we all need to get to a place where we can be comfortable sharing personal contact info but again from differences in discussions today I believe we have a long way to go.
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Post by Echo5Alpha on Jul 29, 2009 14:28:36 GMT -5
So they can use coercive force to ensure that I comply with their laws, but the laws that bind them are easily ignored. We as 'law abiding citizens' are falling for a big scam when we let the leaders ignore the law. This is one of the reasons I make an effort to no longer refer to myself or others as "law abiding citizens." I prefer "peaceful honest citizen", and I will remain so until there is no longer an option. This does not mean that I feel compelled to obey any laws that are clearly unconstitutional. I can honestly and peacefully refuse to comply. I don't count vandalism as peaceful, but when the time comes and peaceful is no longer an option, that would be the preferable first step, before violence against people. Property can be restored, a life can't.
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Post by Echo5Alpha on Jul 29, 2009 14:44:27 GMT -5
The real sad part is we should have had A&M, Appleseed, SoL, C4L, and other groups 10 or so years ago, before things disintegrated to where they are now. I guess that's a lesson that wasn't learned from the Founders; we modern Americans wait for the front door to get kicked in, before we take action. Great point, but I would take it back 100 years or more trather than just 10. I'm fairly sure that Brock would agree that this sort of "movement" probably needed to be in place before the 1860's. Regardless, you are correct, we are running years late getting this sort of thing going!
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Post by Echo5Alpha on Jul 29, 2009 14:53:32 GMT -5
Our economy is so fragile that a hard push from any area will throw it into collapse, I too believe we are looking at multi-year depression, hopefully during that period every politician and citizen that caused this financial mess is tried and executed. 6 million people out of work, the real unemployment is 16-18% not the 9.5% the government and press continue to report, Citizens are holding on to what they have and stocking up on everything from food to weapons and ammo, no one is spending money in the "economy". and the Federal Tax intake is already down around 30%... imagine what it is going to be at the end of the year. Somethings going to give and give in a big way, hopefully enough of the sheeple are waking up, I just don't know if we have the time. There should definitely be trials, and maybe some warrant the ultimate punishment, but not all. I think those directly involved and pushing for the fascist or marxist systems, should be sentenced to live under those systems with no help from those of us who prefer to live free. divide us up, I am not beholden to any locale. I exited lefty Illinois for a relatively free Arizona 10 years ago. I'll move again, if I have to.
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Post by brocktownsend on Jul 29, 2009 15:46:53 GMT -5
So they can use coercive force to ensure that I comply with their laws, but the laws that bind them are easily ignored. We as 'law abiding citizens' are falling for a big scam when we let the leaders ignore the law. This is one of the reasons I make an effort to no longer refer to myself or others as "law abiding citizens." I prefer "peaceful honest citizen", and I will remain so until there is no longer an option. This does not mean that I feel compelled to obey any laws that are clearly unconstitutional. I can honestly and peacefully refuse to comply. I don't count vandalism as peaceful, but when the time comes and peaceful is no longer an option, that would be the preferable first step, before violence against people. Property can be restored, a life can't. Anyone who hasn't yet, please go to oathkeepers.org/, take the oath, and submit a few words. Oath Keepers Orders We Will NOT Obey Full Length Videosturly.com/agrnOATH KEEPERS: ORDERS WE WILL NOT OBEYClick here sturly.com/agro to read full length version.1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people. 2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people 3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal. 4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state. 5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty. 6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps. 7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. 8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control." (We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.)9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies. 10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.
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Post by barelyillegal on Jul 29, 2009 17:02:16 GMT -5
Why not the Liberty Tree or one such as in the Bunker Hill flag? It's easy enough to draw and can be done very quickly. A stencil could be made and spray-painted using the stencil. Perhaps every person who wants to leave a rock choose their own statement? Not everybody is a three percenter, some people would want a Gadsden flag, some would want the 'appeal to heaven', and so on. What all would have in common is the rock. Thoughts? I would hope most here are "three percenters" according to Mike Vanderbough's definition- the three or so percent of gun owners who would resist/ disobey any gun ban which provided for mandatory turn-ins or confiscation. If anyone who's on here wouldn't put themselves in that "3%" category, then what would they expect to talk about on the phone tree in a real emergency? At the risk of getting too negative on the forum, I'll refrain from going into to much sarcasm here, but you can see where I'm going with this. And I'm assuming Vanderbough (Sipsey St Irregulars blog) coined the term "3%-er." I myself like the simplicity of the "III," and its image would encourage anyone who was curious and saw it to look around a bit online and figure out exactly what it meant and who it represents. If there are different "symbols" and all they have in common is the rock, then the message would, I believe, be too vague and open to interpretation. "III" cuts right to the chase.
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Post by brocktownsend on Jul 29, 2009 17:41:01 GMT -5
Perhaps every person who wants to leave a rock choose their own statement? Not everybody is a three percenter, some people would want a Gadsden flag, some would want the 'appeal to heaven', and so on. What all would have in common is the rock. Thoughts? I would hope most here are "three percenters" according to Mike Vanderbough's definition- the three or so percent of gun owners who would resist/ disobey any gun ban which provided for mandatory turn-ins or confiscation. If anyone who's on here wouldn't put themselves in that "3%" category, then what would they expect to talk about on the phone tree in a real emergency? At the risk of getting too negative on the forum, I'll refrain from going into to much sarcasm here, but you can see where I'm going with this. And I'm assuming Vanderbough (Sipsey St Irregulars blog) coined the term "3%-er." I myself like the simplicity of the "III," and its image would encourage anyone who was curious and saw it to look around a bit online and figure out exactly what it meant and who it represents. If there are different "symbols" and all they have in common is the rock, then the message would, I believe, be too vague and open to interpretation. "III" cuts right to the chase. It's from the Revolution. You'll see his 3% flag near the end, and here is a 3% Confederate 1st National that a friend had made. 2.bp.blogspot.com/_OufNdUpd4A8/SgYWUjtnN1I/AAAAAAAABh4/rYl8TZYRmeE/s320/photo.jpgWhat is a "Three Percenter"? During the American Revolution, the active forces in the field against the King's tyranny never amounted to more than 3% of the colonists. They were in turn actively supported by perhaps 10% of the population. In addition to these revolutionaries were perhaps another 20% who favored their cause but did little or nothing to support it. Another one-third of the population sided with the King (by the end of the war there were actually more Americans fighting FOR the King than there were in the field against him) and the final third took no side, blew with the wind and took what came. Three Percenters today do not claim that we represent 3% of the American people, although we might. That theory has not yet been tested. We DO claim that we represent at least 3% of American gun owners, which is still a healthy number somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million people. History, for good or ill, is made by determined minorities. We are one such minority. So too are the current enemies of the Founders' Republic. What remains, then, is the test of will and skill to determine who shall shape the future of our nation. The Three Percent today are gun owners who will not disarm, will not compromise and will no longer back up at the passage of the next gun control act. Three Percenters say quite explicitly that we will not obey any further circumscription of our traditional liberties and will defend ourselves if attacked. We intend to maintain our God-given natural rights to liberty and property, and that means most especially the right to keep and bear arms. Thus, we are committed to the restoration of the Founders' Republic, and are willing to fight, die and, if forced by any would-be oppressor, to kill in the defense of ourselves and the Constitution that we all took an oath to uphold against enemies foreign and domestic. We are the people that the collectivists who now control the government should leave alone if they wish to continue unfettered oxygen consumption. We are the Three Percent. Attempt to further oppress us at your peril. To put it bluntly, leave us the hell alone. Or, if you feel froggy, go ahead AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS. The Nyberg Battle Flag of the Three Percent2.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/SYUJy0MPMEI/AAAAAAAAAWc/wP0nN_LPADk/S240/3+flag.jpgThis time we are ALL Davidians. This time, we are all Jews, Kulaks, "counter-revolutionists" and "enemies of the state." We are now a despised minority within a country no longer our own.BUT WE WILL NOT BE DESPISED. "When Democracy Becomes Tyranny 4.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/SWTUPCedbiI/AAAAAAAAAFU/kmteEtxTUSE/S240/300px-M14_afmil.jpgI STILL get to vote."
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Post by sallianne on Jul 29, 2009 22:13:33 GMT -5
the only thing that bothers me about the tea parties, is this, we should have millions turning out, not hundreds , or thousands. but millions taking to the streets, then and only then will O. and his gov.. of thugs get the feeling we mean what we say. way to many people sitting back doing nothing. we just need people coming together standing, now that would get the point across to washington DC. hopw to get them out, I just don't know.
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Post by Michael Downing on Jul 29, 2009 22:43:05 GMT -5
There is light at the end of the tunnel and victory is in sight as long as we never forget what we are fighting for. Our enemies are many and it seems the battle is in their favor but the war has not been lost. We need to remember from where our Liberties came and bow on bended knee and ask for strength. The day will be ours if not in my time then in the days of my children or my grand children because this is a war that if I can not win then I will pass the fight onto those who follow me because there is no other choice. In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Molon Labe...
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Post by philt on Jul 29, 2009 23:22:59 GMT -5
the only thing that bothers me about the tea parties, is this, we should have millions turning out, not hundreds , or thousands. but millions taking to the streets, then and only then will O. and his gov.. of thugs get the feeling we mean what we say. way to many people sitting back doing nothing. we just need people coming together standing, now that would get the point across to washington DC. hopw to get them out, I just don't know. There is currently a national tea party organized for Sept 12 in Washington DC. A number of groups are co-sponsors such as Free Republic, Freedom Works, Club for Growth, Americans for tax reform Ayn Rand Center, grass fire, resist.net and others. This event could very easily be a million person march. There is info posted on Free Republic home page about hotels, groups car pooling etc.
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Post by themachine on Jul 30, 2009 0:09:56 GMT -5
the only thing that bothers me about the tea parties, is this, we should have millions turning out, not hundreds , or thousands. but millions taking to the streets, then and only then will O. and his gov.. of thugs get the feeling we mean what we say. way to many people sitting back doing nothing. we just need people coming together standing, now that would get the point across to washington DC. hopw to get them out, I just don't know. Sallianne, you are not alone in your frustration, as I think you can tell by reading the posts just on this forum alone. Being that you found your way here is a good start. Without lines of communication to inform and unite those in this common Cause, we're basically lone islands in this ocean of discontent. While I totally support the TEA parties and similar rallies--any freedom of assembly for that matter--I don't see these as an effective tool for change by themselves. They are good venues for networking and sharing information, but the truth is that many who attend these events go home without any follow-up of any kind taking place. They sit comfortably on the couch with their chest puffed out thinking, "we showed THEM that we mean business!", while waiting for 'The Simpsons' or the ballgame to come on TV. Although these activities might give a sense of "we mean business" to the participants, those in power don't perceive it that way. Most politicians care about one thing; maintaining their seat of power. If they don't perceive any threat to this, there is absolutely no incentive to do things differently on their part. Obviously, the biggest tool to terminate their employment is voting them out of office. This hasn't effectively been done for over 100 years. Why? Because people have lost touch with their true Heritage and the principles upon which this nation was founded. "The People" have allowed 100 years of compromise to our Constitution, now we are stuck trying to clean up the mess. Unless we can educate and awaken enough people to an understanding of how our government works, and what steps need to be taken to restore our Republic, in addition to actually following through with these actions, then there is no hope. The American Revolution was won before the first shot was ever fired at Lexington, because enough people's "hearts and minds" were set on not living under a tyrannical government. The mind is a powerful thing; enough empowered minds can do great things--a Constitutional Republic in the case of the American Revolution. It will only be through a united assault of principled, pro-active people, that we can take our country back. Alarm & Muster plays a vital role in the communications and networking aspect of this. There are other good organizations that have allied themselves with A&M that are worth your consideration. Think about the original 13 colonies and all the difference of opinion among them. Some colonies even hated one another, yet they managed to come together, galvanized by the common cause of Liberty and freedom. If we are to really mean business, we need to do the same.
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gnl
Full Member
FL State POC
Posts: 73
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Post by gnl on Jul 30, 2009 1:01:36 GMT -5
I like the word "resist". It automatically invokes a positive response without pondering the meaning. Most people resent authority in some fashion, at a gut level. "Resist" takes advantage of that.
I was on the phone tonight with a regional poc and he mentioned the III idea. Despite my knowledge of the 3%'ers, I was stumped. I didn't automatically connect the revolutionary 3% with the markings on the rock. It's too complex. Keep it simple.
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Post by lighteye on Jul 30, 2009 12:28:58 GMT -5
"III" ... I like it, but then I am one of that particular %, so my thought might be biased
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Post by brocktownsend on Jul 30, 2009 12:33:00 GMT -5
"III" ... I like it, but then I am one of that particular %, so my thought might be biased Yes, III is simple, and unforgettable.
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