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Post by Michael Downing on Jul 17, 2012 10:54:45 GMT -5
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Post by sapp01 on Jul 17, 2012 11:13:36 GMT -5
Who among the nation's population are the most greedy, those at the top, or those at the bottom? Greed, in my opinion, is not the sole characteristic of the rich, but to a greater degree, it is the characteristic of many of the low and modest wage-earners in this country. Wanting what the other person has earned and believing that one has a right to it is the greatest delusion of our society today.
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Post by avordvet on Jul 17, 2012 11:21:25 GMT -5
Who among the nation's population are the most greedy, those at the top, or those at the bottom? Greed, in my opinion, is not the sole characteristic of the rich, but to a greater degree, it is the characteristic of many of the low and modest wage-earners in this country. Wanting what the other person has earned and believing that one has a right to it is the greatest delusion of our society today. Yup, "Tho shalt not covet other peoples stuff"... good advice for all.
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Post by Cujo on Jul 17, 2012 11:36:21 GMT -5
Who among the nation's population are the most greedy, those at the top, or those at the bottom? Greed, in my opinion, is not the sole characteristic of the rich, but to a greater degree, it is the characteristic of many of the low and modest wage-earners in this country. Wanting what the other person has earned and believing that one has a right to it is the greatest delusion of our society today. Words from the Wife, my better half. He/they are pushing to divide our Country, he/they are pushing for a Civil War, these are her thoughts. If this is the case I truly believe the left will have fewer numbers that are willing to die for Marxism then Patriots are for Liberty. They will expect others to do the dirty work for them, they will expect the U.N. to save them. Michael is right, entitlement America will be persuaded that they are in this position because of the rich & small business owner. That NAFTA had nothing to do with America fall of the working class. my .02
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Post by safetalker on Jul 17, 2012 12:27:21 GMT -5
They will continue to support their food source. However when that check stops because you and I stopped depositing it in the bank they will have to leave, work, or starve. We will see the pictures of the 300 pound mama's ho;ding the bony bodies protruding bellied kid looking blankly at the camera next to the 2 year old Mercedes with 20" tires and leather seats. While we continue to put our wealth into their banks we have no choice but to pay the piper. I have spent 3 years trying to create a business that operates out of my back pocket. I hope to launch it in the next three weeks. The problem is how to have employees that are not paid, but are reimbursed. In the IRS rules and Title 12 only "Gain" is taxable. So I need to figure a contract that will allow my contractors to be compensated by their exertion and not paid for their hours. Think about this???
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Post by busboy on Jul 19, 2012 9:54:26 GMT -5
They will continue to support their food source. However when that check stops because you and I stopped depositing it in the bank they will have to leave, work, or starve. And exactly how long will the pay checks flow if there is massive civil unrest in this country? If we are indeed engaged in a civil war, commerce will come to a near standstill. Government income will cease. Government payouts will cease. Those who "work" for the government, either directly or indirectly, will be unable to continue to do so without being paid. There are ways they can extend their ability to pay, without receiving money, but these are very short term stop gaps. Any civil war in America will be very long and destructive. The end result is that what is so attractive about America will become unusable or destroyed. So any "investors" in the destruction will have little hope of recouping their investment. The "divide" in this country is a manufactured concern, by those who wish to conquer this country. It is being pushed so hard by the media, by the liberal politicians, that it should be obvious to all that it is agenda driven, not reality based. The numbers of all those who are on some sort of government payout, are not all people who are totally reliant upon the government. Most of these folks are getting a portion from the feds, and many of these portions are either really not needed, or are perhaps accrued benefits, like Social Security or Medicare. The numbers of purely reliant people in this country is still extremely small. Those people are not threats to people like us, as they are unthinking, unmoving and incapable as a whole. They will just wither on the vine and die, or become productive, if their teat dries up. The rest, who get a portion of their existence from the federal government, like those who get some food stamps, or even some welfare checks, they still rely upon the free enterprise system to provide for their core existence, or at least a large percentage. So most of the "polls" illustrating such a divide are purposefully misleading....again, to demoralize and give a false sense of defeatism. We all know people who are getting checks from the government who really don't "need" it. To assume that these same people are willing to endure manufactured hardships to retain these portions is a giant leap. The "occupy" movement is a good example. Many of those there would not be there if they were not products of "sugar daddies" back home, or paid protesters. In fact, look at the movement as a whole, only those who are funded from outside sources (unions, daddy, etc.) are still around at all. The others have withered and gone away. " If this is the case I truly believe the left will have fewer numbers that are willing to die for Marxism then Patriots are for Liberty.
" There is a tremendous amount of truth in this statement.
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Post by midnightrider on Jul 19, 2012 10:15:25 GMT -5
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Post by avordvet on Jul 19, 2012 11:57:32 GMT -5
And exactly how long will the pay checks flow if there is massive civil unrest in this country? Not talking about it or trying to put the situation in a "better" light is not going to make the problem and/or solution any less palatable... ...and for someone trying to draw all parties together in the name of freedom and liberty, you sure are alienating quite a few people with your, "you are not helping the cause of freedom and liberty" lectures. Some of these people have been in the fight for many years, some probably before you were born... just sayin.
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Post by busboy on Jul 19, 2012 18:48:48 GMT -5
Not understanding your references?
It is amazing the desire to start defeated and work from there.
Lamenting that "they" have won we only have to wait for them to mop up, sure seems like a "home run ball", and has definitely proven successful in any attempt to restore/preserve the Constitutional Republic.....
Sorry if positive news pisses off some people, it would be a damn shame to interrupt their war with victory.
But, I will continue my "happy talk" contrary to the desire of some to be defeated. Guess there is just some of us who refuse to be defeated. All the while others will buy any propaganda which their enemies put out, stepping over facts and reality to do so.
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Post by busboy on Jul 19, 2012 19:00:56 GMT -5
Precious. If one is not a defeatist they are a troll? Is that the assertion? wow. Facts and reality be damned? Ironically, the ostrich seems to be on the other foot.
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Post by busboy on Jul 19, 2012 20:38:33 GMT -5
I find it a bit of a puzzle.
Someone who promotes Constitutional and peaceful measures to address the issues of the day. Measures which have proven effective, providing links, details and information, is said to be a "troll".
However, the promotion of only bad news, with no meaningful resolutions other than violence and law breaking is deemed some level of "patriot"? Where are all the examples of this being effective for the cause? Where are all the links and information illustrating that these courses of action will provide the solutions sought?
Gotta wonder, if you were a fed, wishing to disrupt the patriot movement, instill more paranoia and division among the community, which tactic would you take? Which tactic have they taken in the past? Setting up patriots is something they dearly love to do.
However, promoting peaceful and effective measures....how is this disruptive and destructive to the goals of patriots?
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Post by Michael Downing on Jul 19, 2012 21:31:00 GMT -5
"However, promoting peaceful and effective measures....how is this disruptive and destructive to the goals of patriots?"
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace — but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Nuff said...
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Post by busboy on Jul 20, 2012 0:21:08 GMT -5
Choosing defeat over effective success? Interesting approach. The patriot rhetoric which claims to parallel the Founders and their situations are simply to discard their sacrifices so we could be owners of our country, unlike they were, prior to 1776. It is interesting as well the constant refrain for the need of war from folks, going on decades now, but with nothing to show for their saber rattling. The talk of preparing for war is fun, but over the last 100 years, and especially the last 40 years, it has been just that, talk. It is easier to thump one's chest, claim to be prepared to do the most difficult of things. But if one is unwilling or unable to do the much more simpler and easier things, where is the credibility in one's "words"? "If they cross my line......" Well, according to many here, they have. Yet, there is simply talk. Sorry, the quoting of Patrick Henry is hollow. Patrick Henry was a member of the Virginia legislature when he made that quote. Thus he was a representative of the People, and engaged in the very things which so many here discard so lightly. This was less than 1 month before Lexington/Concord, and well after many military assaults upon the Colonials to disarm them and to prepare the countryside for submission. It was in a Colony, the possession of the King, which he had disbanded all their means of self-government (courts, legislatures, etc). It was at a time when the elected representatives of the People of Virginia had gathered for the very purpose of considering resolutions of war against their King and government. It was after he had made this statement in his speech: I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House.Where as the King and Parliament had indeed not givien any "hopeful" indications, and the Colonials had NO POLITICAL voice in England or in the Colonies. However this is FAR from the condition of the American People today. Nah, it is rhetoric. It is of poor context rhetoric. The Founders were not defeatist, on the day they stood their ground in Lexington/Concord. Nor were they in July of 1776. Nor were they through to the end of that conflict with England. Nor were they when they penned and ratified the Constitution years later. To try to parallel today's defeatism with their condition is bewildering. The crazy irony is, "..... give me liberty or give me death!" They made the required sacrifice so that we already have the LIBERTY. So why the rush to chose defeat out of the jaws of victory?
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Post by busboy on Jul 20, 2012 0:21:27 GMT -5
This site boast over 1700 members. Very few post here.
There are many comments by folks here claiming a desire to get more people involved and engaged.
However, so many can only conjure up thoughts and ideas which are beyond the consideration of most Americans. They have no other options to offer, just simply war and most likely defeat.
Considering there are so many examples of Americans using the very tools the Founders passed on to us, the current owners of America, to very good success, is there any wonder that the ranks of the saber rattlers remains small?
The "3%" is a myth. The overwhelming numbers in America were pro-Liberty, they were pro the Revolution, and after July 1776, were pro-Independence.
If 3% of the American People would simply do their duties as owners, that would stop the madness which we are seeing being perpetrated on the federal level. But where are they?
If they will not do the simple, then what would make anyone think they would do the most difficult?
The dogged determination by some to demoralize and instill a defeated attitude upon those they interact with is difficult to understand. What is the end goal?
To "rally" the troops? Who wishes to rally to an already defeated cause?
I can think of no positive reason for such rhetoric. I hesitate to attribute motive behind such actions.
I will identify motive for my approach. It is to gain as many people exercising the tools of Freedom and Liberty, passed on to us by the Founders. All too many people are unaware they even exist, let alone being employed today with very good success.
Ironically, these tools do not require great sacrifice, just knowledge and persistence. Success is rather predictable, and defeats are not life ending.
I marvel at the suggestion that such actions would be the product of ill will, as the only outcome of such actions is more Freedom and Liberty, the very effects which so many here champion.
The vocal few here may not desire to be confronted with a message of hope and success. Go ahead, attempt to drown these out. However, the facts are there for others to view for themselves, to determine if they would prefer to exercise the Liberty they already posses, as heirs of the Founders. Or they can choose to disregard the sacrifices of the Founders (and many in the generations between theirs and ours) to secure our Liberties.
We don't face the conditions and situations our Founders did, thanks to their suffering and sacrifices.
“Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present Generation to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it.” ― John Adams
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Post by Cujo on Jul 20, 2012 7:33:11 GMT -5
I'm curious, what has your involvement been in this struggle for Gov to work with in the frame of the Constitution?
As mentioned many of us has been in this fight for many years, I can't talk for everyone here but I'm sure they have been involved.
Personally I have met with State & Congressional Rep's F2F, spent time calling Senators & Congress prior to votes, helping Constitutional people run for sheriff plus much more.
What exactly have you done? You are giving allot of lectures but I (we) have not heard of any actions taken on your behalf.
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Post by avordvet on Jul 20, 2012 8:07:44 GMT -5
I'm curious, what has your involvement been in this struggle for Gov to work with in the frame of the Constitution? As mentioned many of us has been in this fight for many years, I can't talk for everyone here but I'm sure they have been involved. Personally I have met with State & Congressional Rep's F2F, spent time calling Senators & Congress prior to votes, helping Constitutional people run for sheriff plus much more. What exactly have you done? You are giving allot of lectures but I (we) have not heard of any actions taken on your behalf. That is my quote you listed... as for activism, just doin my thang being the itch that can't be scratched.
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Post by hefferman1 on Jul 20, 2012 9:14:47 GMT -5
They have worked years to divide the country I love, so they can conquer it without firing a shot.
They know if the fire goes hot, they will not win. That is why they want a cold war, that slowly brainwashes the children and wait till the Patriot is dead.
It looks like their plan is working even amoung the Patriots, as we are dividing ourselves, and making it easier for them to win.
If a comment is not constructive, or does not enlighten, or help someone, or if it is not in good humor sometimes it is better to bite ones tongue and say nothing.
We are on this board to draw together, not divide.
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Post by Michael Downing on Jul 20, 2012 9:20:02 GMT -5
Busboy you call me defeatist then certainly you do not know me.
"I can think of no positive reason for such rhetoric. I hesitate to attribute motive behind such actions."
Please do not hesitate to express the erroneous conclusion you have already obviously formulated. You remind me of someone I know here in NC and I found despite all his grand speech and calls for positive action in the end he proved that he could not be trusted and his words were empty but as I do not know you I will with hold such judgment. I certainly do remember you from the A&M days on this forum and I will give you credit for one thing you are consistent in the message you bring. As to motive I also am not sure of yours as it seems your posts are more to aggravate than motivate but at that you are al least successful.
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Post by Cujo on Jul 20, 2012 9:37:33 GMT -5
I won't be divided, for me I will not engage in anymore responses to busboy. Take away the oxygen & the fire suffocates.
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Post by busboy on Jul 20, 2012 12:13:59 GMT -5
I certainly do remember you from the A&M days on this forum and I will give you credit for one thing you are consistent in the message you bring. As to motive I also am not sure of yours as it seems your posts are more to aggravate than motivate but at that you are al least successful. Obviously some of the information I have provided makes some here uncomfortable. You may call it 'aggravation', but the information speaks clearly enough. Motivation is something each individual must find and muster, but motivation with no useful, productive and constructive release either dies off or works for ill-fated concerns. I know many, myself included, who started do the path of defeatism, who saw the path the country was on, and sought solutions, but getting derailed by the lure of a "second revolutionary war" as the "once and for all solution". After spinning wheels and wasted time, with no hope for any positive solution for myself, my children and grandchildren, it was time to find the real solutions. ---From ojibwa, above: " I'm curious, what has your involvement been in this struggle for Gov to work with in the frame of the Constitution?
As mentioned many of us has been in this fight for many years, I can't talk for everyone here but I'm sure they have been involved.
Personally I have met with State & Congressional Rep's F2F, spent time calling Senators & Congress prior to votes, helping Constitutional people run for sheriff plus much more. " But yet you are here? Does this not prove the point that it is not an "either or" situation? Is it so divisive to illustrate those actions which you are engaged in, which are having positive effects around the country? And do these efforts necessitate an exclusion of "armed readiness"? If not, then why the other way around, for so many? I too have been engaged in many such activities, you have listed. There is no doubt we all can be engaged more, but the key to victory is not to do "more", but to get more involved. While some here wish to see my posts as lectures, scoldings, or what have you, that is a personal choice, skewed by some level of defensiveness of their accepted positions. As pointed out in several places, the "patriot movement" is, and has been stagnant for decades. The growth in numbers needed to be successful has not happened, and even some here have eluded to the aging and dying off of the early participants. What do these first participants have to show for their years of involvement? There has been little change in the course of events in this country by their actions. However, the actions which ojibwa speak of are having a positive impact on the course of the country. In fact, it is precisely those groups and people engaged in such efforts who are seeing growth and additional success in the effort to preserve and restore our Constitutional Republic. The battle front which is having the most success, the most growth, is one which is deserving of action by the patriots. This battlefield is in the hearts and minds of the American People. There are those who could never be effective in a shooting battlefield, who can be tremendously effective in the battle ground of the hearts and minds of the American People and in the application of Constitutional resolutions to fix this country. Further, even those who have the means and manners to be effective on the shooting battlefield, need not exclude themselves from the other "battlefields", as evident by ojibwa and others. Again, the illustration of successes and useful tools in the second battlefield is viewed with suspicion...why?
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