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Post by brocktownsend on May 24, 2011 0:24:40 GMT -5
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Post by hefferman1 on May 24, 2011 9:34:19 GMT -5
Some men will always grasp for power not lawfully theirs. They may do this under the cover of Law, it is still an attempt to grasp power and reduce others to less than freemen. As for me, I will not allow my God Given Inalienable Rights to be taken by force, or unlawful means. Even if that unlawful means is covered by the color of Law. I also refuse to stand by, and see other less strong men enslaved by these same means. You had another thread with a post from Fred. alarmandmuster.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7636I guess my two statements above show the difference between Fred's ideas of Patriotism and mine. I believe in an older view that a Patriot is one who is a freeman, who willingly stands in the gap, so others can be free also. Fred seems to believe it is loyalty to one's pack, which is the modern view of Patriotism. Again, I reject that belief, for the belief in freedom for all, not just those in my pack.
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Post by safetalker on May 24, 2011 10:56:13 GMT -5
Knowledge is the tool of the oppressor and the oppressed. It is time to read books and documents not gun magazines. The men and women who are drawn to Police work are the same caliber as those drawn to the Military. They don't come to oppress their families, friends, or community. They come to serve them. The tyrants in their leadership chain start in their academy reteaching them the way to accomplish their personal goals. They are led to believe that only they know the big picture. They are taught that they are the last bastion between the terrorists, anarchists, and criminals. They quickly are taught to react without thinking. The reason they are told is to keep themselves and their partner safe. When they finally stand shoulder to shoulder with their brethren officers with the citizens that they swore to protect both in their families and in their jobs across from them in rebellion the light comes on for some, and they are quickly removed by the structure to less contact jobs in training, dispatch, and community relations. Till them we have eyes and ears in the structure. These are not enemies of the people. They are human beings with the ability to change. Treat them with respect and ask them questions that will make them think about what they are doing. Then when they face the situation again with more information the outcome will be different. However to do this we have to know the truth ourselves. 1. The police are not employed to protect us. They are employed to collect fines and enforce their employers rules, ordinances, statutes, and acts. Their Employer is the incorporated City, or town where they work. Their additional purpose is to provide a force of arms to respond to DISTURBANCES in accordance with the orders of the Military District Commander under the 1861 decree of Martial Law. (Suggest that everyone go to the Avalon Project and read the Lieber Code avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/lieber.asp)2. The Sheriff is the highest elected law enforcement officer in the county. This person is elected by the residents. However his deputies are bought and paid for by the Incorporated County Government. This government is controlled by the "County Commission" which is directly controlled by the Military District Commander. They are responsible for managing the County according to his wishes under the 1861 Martial Law Decree and the Lieber code. The Sheriff and the Deputies are not responsible for your safety. They are responsible for maintaining order and enforcing the rules, ordinances, and statutes of the State of ________. They only respond to disturbances and to serve court documents. 3. The State police, militia, highway patrol, or what ever name your State uses is there to collect taxes, fines, and enforce the orders of the State Governor. They respond to county incidents under the orders of the Governor. This means that you and you alone are responsible for your safety, and the safety of your family and property. The only reason the County and City Fire services respond to your house is that they own it under the trading with the enemy act of 1933. Do some reading and give those Police some respect. They are just doing the job the City, County, State gave them. Just not the job you thought they were hired to do. If they can bust into the house you placed upon that piece of City property it is because you said they could. You placed the City number on the house to make it easy for them to recognize and by doing agreed that it belonged to the county land PLAT. You do have the right to quiet enjoyment, but only if you properly secure it and place sinage on the outside to notify all of that fact. However to make your house look better you did not. That is not the Police's fault. That is yours. I stated on another thread that if the Police can enter your house and make it to the bedroom you don't need a gun you need a security inspection from a good locksmith. Think about this in full not just those parts you don't like. If you think I am wrong research it and prove it. Not to me my mind is made up prove it to yourself.
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Post by longtom on May 25, 2011 12:44:36 GMT -5
A thought,
I wonder if, during these random home raids of innocent folks, it is now legal for them to use that door breach tool to smash in your door if you are not home and your door is locked.
I'll bet it's legal right now.
I hope they speed that to the circuit court quickly and get it gone.
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Post by longtom on May 25, 2011 12:48:51 GMT -5
With the power to conduct warrantless searches carte blanche I'm sure they also have the legal right to tear all your shit up for no good reason.
Have you guys ever seen pictures of homes after a warrant is conducted? I would literally be seething with rage if I came home and found a police note on my door and my home was destroyed.
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Post by Cujo on May 25, 2011 14:03:11 GMT -5
LEO's are put in a difficult situation, they are you & I. All our kids play together we are neighbors with them and they are our friends at the poker game or at our kids games.
It has to be difficult for most of them, having to start violating a Constitution they believe in, they love & have devotion to this country as you & I.
The difference is they have the ability to directly question these orders & if need be to disobey them. Will there be consequences? Most likely, but there will be consequences for violating my Rights or the peoples Rights.
Those that choose to work for or support the dismantling of the Constitution are not our friends. For those that do stand with their neighbors, I will stand with them.
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Post by brocktownsend on May 25, 2011 15:52:22 GMT -5
LEO's are put in a difficult situation, they are you & I. All our kids play together we are neighbors with them and they are our friends at the poker game or at our kids games. It has to be difficult for most of them, having to start violating a Constitution they believe in, they love & have devotion to this country as you & I. The difference is they have the ability to directly question these orders & if need be to disobey them. Will there be consequences? Most likely, but there will be consequences for violating my Rights or the peoples Rights. Well said. Those that choose to work for or support the dismantling of the Constitution are not our friends. For those that do stand with their neighbors, I will stand with them.
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Post by longtom on May 25, 2011 16:32:05 GMT -5
Very well said. That's what the Oathkeepers are all about. It's especially hard for a military man to resist orders like that because he is subject to UCMJ and the military courts.
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Post by Cujo on May 25, 2011 16:45:18 GMT -5
At the age of 19 during the Carter Adm. they gave a simular 29 Palms to the Army. I point blank looked at my Capt. told him I would fire on those who fired on civilians.
His reply, "Keep your F#@king thoughts to yourself!"
Point being, you stand for something or you stand for nothing at all. Each person serving in the Military/LE will have to make that choice. Stand with your family, friends & fellow countrymen or you stand against them, that is the bottom line. Stand for the Constitution or stand against it.
As a Veteran a Patriot I made my choice back at the age of 19.
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Post by hefferman1 on May 25, 2011 16:49:28 GMT -5
At the age of 19 during the Carter Adm. they gave a simular 29 Palms to the Army. I point blank looked at my Capt. told him I would fire on those who fired on civilians. His reply, "Keep your F#@king thoughts to yourself!" Point being, you stand for something or you stand for nothing at all. Each person serving in the Military/LE will have to make that choice. Stand with your family, friends & fellow countrymen or you stand against them, that is the bottom line. Stand for the Constitution or stand against it. As a Veteran a Patriot I made my choice back at the age of 19. Semper Fi. I feel the same way.
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Post by safetalker on May 25, 2011 17:14:49 GMT -5
Here is an article I found that seems to shed light on what they can do. Especially under the recently extended Patriot Act ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Patriot Act: When Truth Becomes Treason
May 24th, 2011
By Susan Lindauer, former Asset covering Iraq & Libya and the second non-Arab American indicted on the Patriot Act
Many Americans think they understand the dangers of the Patriot Act, which Congress has vowed to extend 4 more years in a vote later this week. Trust me when I say, Americans are not nearly frightened enough.
Ever wonder why the truth about 9/11 never got exposed? Why Americans don't have a clue about leadership fraud surrounding the War on Terror? Why Americans don't know if the 9/11 investigation was really successful? Why the Iraqi Peace Option draws a blank? Somebody has known the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden--- or his grave—for the past 10 years. But nobody's talking to the people.
In significant part, that's because of the Patriot Act--- a law that equates free speech with sedition. It's got a big agenda, with 7,000 pages of Machiavellian code designed to interrupt individual questioning of government policy. In this brave new world, free speech under the Bill of Rights effectively has been declared a threat to government controls for maintaining stability. And the Patriot Act has become the premiere weapon to attack whistle blowers and dissidents who challenge the comfort of political leaders hiding inconvenient truths from the public. It's all the rage on Capitol Hill, as leaders strive to score TV ratings, while demogauging their "outstanding leadership performance" on everything from national security to environmental policy.
Truth has Become Treason
But wait---Congress assures us the Patriot Act only targets foreigners, who come to our shores seeking to destroy our way of life through violent, criminal acts. Good, law abiding Americans have nothing to fear. The Patriot Act restricts its powers of "roving wiretaps" and warrantless searches to international communications among "bad guys." Congress has sworn, with hand on heart, it's only purpose is breaking down terrorist cells and hunting out "lone wolf" mad men.
That's what they told you, right? And you believed them? You trust the government. Well, that was your first mistake. With regards to the Patriot Act, it's a fatal one. Would the government lie to you? You betcha! And they have.
The Patriot Act reaches far beyond terrorism prevention. In my home state of Maryland, State Police invoked the Patriot Act to run surveillance on the Chesapeake Climate Action Network dedicated to wind power, recycling and protection of the Chesapeake Bay. They infiltrated the DC Anti War Network, suggesting the group might be a front for "white supremacists," and Amnesty International, claiming to investigate "civil rights abuses." Opponents of the death penalty also got targeted (in case they got violent).
Bottom line: truth tellers who give Americans too much insight on any number of issues are vulnerable to a vast arsenal of judicial weapons typically associated with China or Mynamar. In the Patriot Act, the government has created a powerful tool to hunt out free thinking on the left or right. It doesn't discriminate. Anyone who opposes government policy is at risk
How do I know all this? Because I was the second non-Arab American ever indicted on the Patriot Act. My arrest defied all expectations about the law. I was no terrorist plotting to explode the Washington Monument. Quite the opposite, I had worked in anti-terrorism for almost a decade, covering Iraq and Libya, Yemen, Egypt and Malaysia at the United Nations. At the instruction of my CIA handler, I had delivered advance warnings about the 9/11 attack to the private staff of Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Office of Counter-Terrorism in August, 2001. FBI wire taps prove that I carried details of a comprehensive peace framework with Iraq up and down the hallowed corridors of Capitol Hill for months before the invasion, arguing that War was totally unnecessary.
I delivered those papers to Democrats and Republicans alike; to my own second cousin, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card; and to Secretary of State Colin Powell, who lived next door to my CIA handler. Gratis of the Patriot Act, we had the manila envelope and my hand written notes to Secretary Powell, dated a week before his infamous speech at the United Nations. My papers argued that no WMDs would be found inside Iraq, and that the peace framework could achieve all U.S. objectives without firing a shot.
In short, I was an Asset who loudly opposed War with Iraq, and made every effort to correct the mistakes in assumptions on Capitol Hill.
Then I did the unthinkable. I phoned the offices of Senator Trent Lott and Senator John McCain, requesting to testify before a brand new, blue ribbon Commission investigating Pre-War Intelligence. Proud and confident of my efforts, I had no idea Congress was planning to blame "bad intelligence" for the unpopular War.
Over night I became Public Enemy Number One on Capitol Hill.
Thirty days later I awoke to hear FBI agents pounding on my door. My nightmare on the Patriot Act lasted 5 years--- Four years after my arrest, the Court granted me one morning of evidentiary testimony by two supremely credible witnesses. Parke Godfrey verified my 9/11 warnings under oath. Otherwise, I never got my day in Court.
The Patriot Act's Arsenal to Stop Free Speech
If you care about America and the traditions of freedom, whether you're progressive or conservative, you should be angry about this law.
First come the warrantless searches and FBI tracking surveillance. My work in anti-terrorism gave me no protection. I got my first warrantless search after meeting an undercover FBI agent to discuss my support for free elections in Iraq and my opposition to torture and sexual humiliation of Iraqi detainees. (Sorry guys, body wires don't lie.)
If truth tellers don't get the message to shut their mouths, the Justice Department ratchets up the pressure. Defendants face secret charges, secret evidence and secret grand jury testimony. Throughout five years of indictment, my attorneys and I never got to read a single FBI interview or grand jury statement. Under the Patriot Act, the whistleblower/defendant has no right to know who has accused him or her of what criminal activities, or the dates of the alleged offenses, or what laws got broken.
Of course, I was able to piece together my activities. I knew that "sometime in October, 2001" an Iraqi diplomat gave me the English translation of a book on depleted uranium, which showed how cancer rates and birth defects had spiked in Iraqi children.
And I was quite certain that on October 14, 1999, an Iraqi diplomat asked me how to channel major financial contributions to the Presidential Campaign of George Bush and Dick Cheney. The Justice Department got the date from me, since I reported my conversation immediately to my Defense Intelligence handler, Paul Hoven.
It's unlikely the grand jury knew that, since the Justice Department has the prerogative to keep a grand jury in the dark. In this brave new world, a grand jury can be compelled to consider indictments carrying 10 years or more in prison, without the right to review evidence, or otherwise determine whether an individual's actions rise to the level of criminal activity at all.
That's just the beginning. Once Congress scores an indictment against a political opponent, the Justice Department can force Defense attorneys to undergo protracted security clearances, while the whistle blower cum defendant waits in prison--- usually in solitary confinement or the SHU. After the security clearance, prosecutors have an ironclad right to bar attorneys from communicating communications from the prosecution to the defendant, on threat of disbarment, stiff fines or prison sentence.
Scared yet? Once you get to trial, the situation gets much worse. The Patriot Act declares that a prosecutor has no obligation to show evidence of criminal activity to a jury at all. And the Defense can be denied the right to argue a rebuttal to those secret charges, because it requires speculation that might mislead the jury—or might expose issues that the government considers, well, secret. After all that a Judge can instruct a jury that the prosecution regards the secret evidence as sufficient to merit conviction on the secret charges. The Jury can be barred from considering the lack of evidence in weighing whether to convict.
Think I'm exaggerating? You would be wrong. That's what happened to me. All of it—with one major glitch. All of this presumes the whistle blower's lucky enough to get a trial. I was denied mine, though I fought vigorously for my rights. Instead, citing the Patriot Act, I got thrown in prison on a Texas military base without so much as a hearing—and threatened with indefinite detention and forcible drugging, to boot.
Americans are not nearly afraid enough.
Neither is Congress. As of this week, members of Congress should be very afraid. Anyone who votes to extend the Patriot Act should expect to pack their bags in 2012. They will be targeted for defeat. Above all, the words "freedom" and "Constitution" will never appear in their campaigns without suffering extreme public scorn—never, ever again.
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Post by Cujo on May 25, 2011 18:33:48 GMT -5
Do you have the link to this article?
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Post by midnightrider on May 25, 2011 19:10:19 GMT -5
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Post by Cujo on May 25, 2011 20:02:50 GMT -5
Thanks. Watch your blood pressure.
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