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Post by brocktownsend on Aug 9, 2009 20:19:05 GMT -5
The Gathering Storm www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=2964"There are a growing number of citizens in the US that are ready to fight to shut down the government’s grab of personal freedom, it’s blatant abuse of the constitution, and it’s attempt to replace the American way of life with socialism. You have to listen carefully to hear them, but they are there. I won’t start that fight, but when it goes down I will join it."
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Post by freedom4all on Aug 9, 2009 21:36:21 GMT -5
The Gathering Storm www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=2964"There are a growing number of citizens in the US that are ready to fight to shut down the government’s grab of personal freedom, it’s blatant abuse of the constitution, and it’s attempt to replace the American way of life with socialism. You have to listen carefully to hear them, but they are there. I won’t start that fight, but when it goes down I will join it." I Second that Notion!
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Post by Michael Downing on Aug 9, 2009 22:31:33 GMT -5
Brock Jerry's post is right on. You only have to sit back, block out the clutter of noise around you and you can hear it. It is the slow rattle of the snakes tail. The snake has been disturbed and it has given its warning. The rattle will grow and if the enemy does not back down the snake will eventually be forced to strike. Once the battle has begun we will need to remember the words of Patrick Henry:
"It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
The South's Gonna Rattle Again...
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Post by eagle326 on Aug 10, 2009 7:51:30 GMT -5
From Commander:
The South's Gonna Rattle Again...
Commander your above statement is very true. After the War between the states ; the North believed they had silenced the rattle forever. But in fact ; as you say the rattle never died. They just never paid attention . The south has always been an independent people. That's what brought on the war. The north wasn't following the articles of the Constitution. The rattle never stopped ; It's been always been there but people are just too lazy to listen. The South always knew in their hearts that the D.C. crowd would never change and they knew the day would come again to stand up and take back that which is rightfully theirs and ours. They never forgot their history and still proudly proclaim it today. Yes the rattle is growing louder by the day and yet they still don't hear. Maybe they've forgotten how painful the bit can be.
Nothing is the same the second time around.
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Post by lighteye on Aug 10, 2009 10:08:06 GMT -5
What you summed up in 3 lines has cost me my own father's love.
I tried so very hard to show him what was going on in black and white via emails and my blog. He said that I am not the son he raised and loved, and wanted nothing more to do with me if I continued on my path of "baiting" the .gov letter agencies. he instructed me to remove my blog, not associate with anyone that was verbally opposed to what is going on, and not to even think about training on any survival skills with anyone.
I know he won't be here for many more years but I am unable to put my head in a hole in the ground and wait for everything to blow over. I know he is aware on some level that things are screwed up beyond any hopes of fixing and making right without all hell breaking loose.
My posts on Oathkeepers and the 3%ers, sent him sailing over the edge. He consideres it tantamount to treason to even think such things, much less post them publicly.
So.... here I stand, my own kin cowed into submission, and my stiff neck still refuses to bend to tyranny, and I'll only take to my knees for my Creator.
By adhering to the 1st, 2nd, and 10th amendments so strongly, I have become the prodigal son once again. Little brother, the leftist, was kind enough to point that out to me last week that I have regained that title. Him and I get along well, but know we have to avoid discussing one topic in our time together.
Sad times for those that still hold on to that aging piece of paper bearing the signatures of our founding fathers...
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Post by brocktownsend on Aug 10, 2009 10:13:57 GMT -5
From Commander: The South's Gonna Rattle Again... Commander your above statement is very true. After the War between the states ; the North believed they had silenced the rattle forever. But in fact ; as you say the rattle never died. They just never paid attention . The south has always been an independent people. That's what brought on the war. The north wasn't following the articles of the Constitution. The rattle never stopped ; It's been always been there but people are just too lazy to listen. The South always knew in their hearts that the D.C. crowd would never change and they knew the day would come again to stand up and take back that which is rightfully theirs and ours. They never forgot their history and still proudly proclaim it today. Yes the rattle is growing louder by the day and yet they still don't hear. Maybe they've forgotten how painful the bit can be. Nothing is the same the second time around. Secession 101 & Quotes www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=1721&highlight=quotes"Jefferson Davis, in his farewell address to the United States Senate, expressed the sentiments of Virginia....when he said: "Now sir, we are confusing language very much. Men speak of revolution; and when they say revolution, they mean blood. Our fathers meant nothing of the sort. When they spoke of revolution, they meant the inalienable right. When they declared as an inalienable right, the power of the people to abrogate and modify their form of government whenever it did not answer the ends for which it was established, they did not mean that they were to sustain that by brute force... Are we, in this age of civilization and political progress...are we to roll back the whole current of human thought and again return to the mere brute force which prevails between beasts of prey as the only method of settling questions between men?Is it to be supposed that the men who fought the battles of the Revolution for community independence, terminated their great efforts by transmitting prosperity to a condition in which they could only gain those rights by force? If so, the blood of the Revolution was shed in vain; no great principles were established; for force was the law of nature before the battles of the Revolution were fought." John Quincy Adams, speaking before the New York Historical Society in 1839, on the 50th Anniversary of Washington's inauguration as President of the United States, said: "To the people alone there is reserved as well the dissolving as the constituent power, and that power can be exercised by them only under the tie of conscience binding them to the retributive justice of Heaven. With those qualifications we may admit the right as vested in the people of every State of the Union with reference to the General Government which was exercised by the people of the United Colonies with reference to the supreme head of the British Empire of which they formed a part, and under these limitations have the people of each State of the Union a right to secede from the Confederated Union itself."
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Post by brocktownsend on Aug 10, 2009 10:17:59 GMT -5
What you summed up in 3 lines has cost me my own father's love. I tried so very hard to show him what was going on in black and white via emails and my blog. He said that I am not the son he raised and loved, and wanted nothing more to do with me if I continued on my path of "baiting" the .gov letter agencies. he instructed me to remove my blog, not associate with anyone that was verbally opposed to what is going on, and not to even think about training on any survival skills with anyone. I know he won't be here for many more years but I am unable to put my head in a hole in the ground and wait for everything to blow over. I know he is aware on some level that things are screwed up beyond any hopes of fixing and making right without all hell breaking loose. My posts on Oathkeepers and the 3%ers, sent him sailing over the edge. He consideres it tantamount to treason to even think such things, much less post them publicly. So.... here I stand, my own kin cowed into submission, and my stiff neck still refuses to bend to tyranny, and I'll only take to my knees for my Creator. By adhering to the 1st, 2nd, and 10th amendments so strongly, I have become the prodigal son once again. Little brother, the leftist, was kind enough to point that out to me last week that I have regained that title. Him and I get along well, but know we have to avoid discussing one topic in our time together. Sad times for those that still hold on to that aging piece of paper bearing the signatures of our founding fathers... Sad, indeed.
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Post by eagle326 on Aug 10, 2009 10:27:43 GMT -5
As always ; very well stated and informative post. I thank you and Commander for you lessons in history ; As I don't have a lot of time to delve back into it at the moment. I always look forward to finding the things in that part of our history because certain things just never seem to add up. And you two are quite well studied from the looks of it.
A plus 10 on your post and links.
George
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Post by nwtimmy on Aug 10, 2009 11:15:36 GMT -5
It's not just going to be the south this time.....
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Post by eagle326 on Aug 10, 2009 16:48:31 GMT -5
Posted by nwtimmy on Today at 11:15am It's not just going to be the south this time.....
This is true nwtimmy ; There are many across this country who feel the same. Many people say we're just a few on these sites and no real opposition . What they fail understand is that many of us have grown kids & teen grand kids. Not counting other family ; relations and friends who think as we do. I've always loved being under estimated and considered dumber than a rock by these people. I have no doubt that when the time comes ; The rattling will stop and the fangs of true Americans will inflict a wound so great that those out to ruin this country will wish they had never awakened the resting serpent.
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Post by avordvet on Aug 10, 2009 19:12:19 GMT -5
Posted by nwtimmy on Today at 11:15am It's not just going to be the south this time..... ... I have no doubt that when the time comes ; The rattling will stop and the fangs of true Americans will inflict a wound so great that those out to ruin this country will wish they had never awakened the resting serpent. AOV smiles and goes back to "sharpening" his 123gr "Fangs"
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Post by eagle326 on Aug 10, 2009 19:41:33 GMT -5
AOV smiles and goes back to "sharpening" his 123gr "Fangs" At least you're keeping up with your hygiene. Just be careful and don't slip and bite yourself. LOL ;D
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Post by jerome on Aug 10, 2009 22:14:07 GMT -5
I've had "discussions" with a number of people over the past 2 years about seccession because of the attitude that we have seen growing in certain parts of the country. Almost every single one of them told me that it was illegal for the states to break away from the fed and form a new government. The reason discussions is in quotation marks is because they devolved into arguements with over half the people I was talking with. The way most of those conversations ended was with me quoting the Declaration of Independence and them calling me an extrimist, terrorist and here lately a racist.
What all of these people don't understand is that for each of us who stand up and let ourselves be counted now there are countless others who see what is said of us and keep quite but feel the same way (and are even willing to talk about it in private). When something does break they will be expecting a couple hundred thousand across the whole US when in truth, after they fire the first shot, there will be millions standing with us because it is no longer safe to cower down over the fear of being called names by liberals.
I know this isn't an exact quote but Jefferson said something along the line that a good gov fears it's people and in a bad gov the people fear it. Is there any question left of which we have?
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Post by brocktownsend on Aug 10, 2009 22:30:02 GMT -5
"Almost every single one of them told me that it was illegal for the states to break away from the fed and form a new government."
Obviously, this is your experience, but I for the life of me, can't understand this, as I am positive this wouldn't play out in any honest poll.
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Post by avordvet on Aug 11, 2009 5:04:57 GMT -5
On FR this discussion comes up every now and then, and as I told them, of course the government would say a State can't leave the union and of course they are going to get their courts, the Federal courts that is, to say it is against the law.
But as I mentioned; The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence all state that Secession IS AN OPTION that can be used by the States to coerce the Feds or to remove the State from unjust control by a tyrannical federal government, many of the founders went out of their way to state such a position.
In any case, If Texas decided to Secede, just what does the Federal Government think they would do to stop them... Attack Texas? I don't think so.
Number one, Texas can completely sustain itself. Two, Texans don't take kindly to being pushed around, so it would be a serious fight unlike some N.E. States. Three, you can expect other surrounding States to take note of the Feds killing citizens and the conflict would expand.
A lot of mention is made to the number of troops the Feds could muster, estimated at 1.5 million "field" Federal and Local troops... that is if they could convince them to fire upon their fellow citizens, as for technology, the day the Feds start using Tactical Aircraft, Armor and the heavy weapons on its own citizens, it won't matter about secession because "America" would no longer exist.
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Post by 2ncrca on Aug 11, 2009 8:09:08 GMT -5
The active military and the reserves/NG would be hard pressed to effectively quell a national revolt. The DOD is hard-pressed as it is with commitments around the world and with the proposed budget cuts in defense it is not likely it could take on a revolt from within using their current strategy of applying overwhelming force. Using strategic weapons systems within our cities would only fan the flames of contempt against them and bring more into a resistance. Many from the military would defect or just refuse to enter the conflict which would further weaken the ability to carry on operations on such a large scale. The US military has never had to take on such a large piece of real estate and hold it which is key to any military operation. Once military operations are completed in an area forces must be left in place to secure and hold the area permanently. Just imagine how difficult that would be and continue to carry on additional operations along the front. The Air Force, Navy and Marine air assets would not be able to do more than assist in CAS.
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Post by 1776patriot on Aug 11, 2009 10:34:03 GMT -5
What do you think the chairman's "civilian defense force" if for? Why do you think he wants to cut the military or send most of it overseas, so they won't be here?
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Post by philt on Aug 11, 2009 10:41:48 GMT -5
The feds would simply declare martial law, as a national emergency. FEMA would be activated with their homeland security contingencies. All cities would have access and egress limited by checkpoints manned by local police and sheriff personnel. There are already units in reserve, trained specifically to quell disturbances. They will be dropped in by helicopter in designated areas to take out the most verbal "right wing militia operatives". Media tv cameras will be allowed to show the public that resistance is futile and the "instigators" have been neutralized.
I would like to believe that military would defect. And the government probably anticipates some "desertions". But they have actuaries who study and analyze all case scenarios and already believe they have control of any "insurgency by domestic terrorists".
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Post by 2ncrca on Aug 11, 2009 10:45:36 GMT -5
Think about it-they cannot be everywhere all at the same time as this is a very large country. It takes a considerable amount of time and money to train individuals to the same degree as the active military. Who is going to volunteer for this civilian defense force-some kid out of West Point?
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Post by brocktownsend on Aug 11, 2009 10:50:07 GMT -5
On FR this discussion comes up every now and then, and as I told them, of course the government would say a State can't leave the union and of course they are going to get their courts, the Federal courts that is, to say it is against the law. But as I mentioned; The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence all state that Secession IS AN OPTION that can be used by the States to coerce the Feds or to remove the State from unjust control by a tyrannical federal government, many of the founders went out of our way to state such a position. In any case, If Texas decided to Secede, just what does the Federal Government think they would do to stop them... Attack Texas? I don't think so. Number one, Texas can completely sustain itself. Two, Texans don't take kindly to being pushed around, so it would be a serious fight unlike some N.E. States. Three, you can expect other surrounding States to take note of the Feds killing citizens and the conflict would expand. A lot of mention is made to the number of troops the Feds could muster, estimated at 1.5 million "field" Federal and Local troops... that is if they could convince them to fire upon their fellow citizens, as for technology, the day the Feds start using Tactical Aircraft, Armor and the heavy weapons on its own citizens, it won't matter about secession because "America" would no longer exist. I agree.
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Post by 2ncrca on Aug 11, 2009 10:59:23 GMT -5
The feds would simply declare martial law, as a national emergency. FEMA would be activated with their homeland security contingencies. All cities would have access and egress limited by checkpoints manned by local police and sheriff personnel. There are already units in reserve, trained specifically to quell disturbances. They will be dropped in by helicopter in designated areas to take out the most verbal "right wing militia operatives". Media tv cameras will be allowed to show the public that resistance is futile and the "instigators" have been neutralized. I would like to believe that military would defect. And the government probably anticipates some "desertions". But they have actuaries who study and analyze all case scenarios and already believe they have control of any "insurgency by domestic terrorists". There are methods to counter any of these obstacles, but the solution is to have teamwork and a plan.
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Post by nwtimmy on Aug 11, 2009 13:57:38 GMT -5
You guys keep forgetting about the blue helmets. I know they wouldn't be much of an obstacle to most of us, but they will be in the way. If things are really bad enough that active duty .mil has to come in, and martial law is declared nation wide, you can bet you asses that the U N will be sending in troops as well.
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ironwill
State District POC
Denver Colorado District POC
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. ? Tacitus
Posts: 201
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Post by ironwill on Aug 11, 2009 14:20:51 GMT -5
You guys keep forgetting about the blue helmets. I know they wouldn't be much of an obstacle to most of us, but they will be in the way. If things are really bad enough that active duty .mil has to come in, and martial law is declared nation wide, you can bet you asses that the U N will be sending in troops as well. I wouldn't worry too much about the blue helmets...makes for good targets.
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Post by avordvet on Aug 11, 2009 14:20:55 GMT -5
The feds would simply declare martial law, as a national emergency. FEMA would be activated with their homeland security contingencies. All cities would have access and egress limited by checkpoints manned by local police and sheriff personnel. There are already units in reserve, trained specifically to quell disturbances. They will be dropped in by helicopter in designated areas to take out the most verbal "right wing militia operatives". Media tv cameras will be allowed to show the public that resistance is futile and the "instigators" have been neutralized. I would like to believe that military would defect. And the government probably anticipates some "desertions". But they have actuaries who study and analyze all case scenarios and already believe they have control of any "insurgency by domestic terrorists". There are millions of "retired" military and LEO citizens throughout the country that are very aware of the governments capabilities and there are more than enough patriots "embedded" within the government that can and will pass on critical intel on such ops... Yeah they might do what you described, once... then the engagement would begin in earnest, once Americans see that no one is safe. You just have to look at all the totalitarian governments around the world, sooner or later they fall, usually from within. And in any case Americans have a tenacity that cannot be easily defeated, sure a lot of them are pussed out right now, but push them up against the wall and I believe the true American spirit will come forth. Americans have toppled many totalitarian regimes around the world in our history, toppling an internal totalitarian regime would be no different... "Behind every blade of grass".
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Post by avordvet on Aug 11, 2009 14:39:06 GMT -5
You guys keep forgetting about the blue helmets. I know they wouldn't be much of an obstacle to most of us, but they will be in the way. If things are really bad enough that active duty .mil has to come in, and martial law is declared nation wide, you can bet you asses that the U N will be sending in troops as well. Would you be talking about the UN "soldiers" stationed all around the world that will not lift a finger to stop atrocities they witness? The same UN "soldiers" that are raping and killing unarmed men,women and children that they are "protecting" instead of actively engaging hostiles within their AO. The same UN "soldier" that in most cases, run the other way into their "fortified" perimeters when attacked. Those international punks wouldn't last a day in battle with Americans, hell most UN "participants" are countries that we have already kicked the crap out of at sometime in their history... not that I really have an opinion of the UN... ;D
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Post by nwtimmy on Aug 11, 2009 15:20:46 GMT -5
Those are the ones I'm talking about. Like I said, they wouldn't be much of an obstacle, but they would be in the way at some point. Let us not forget all of the "Contractors" that are already being used overseas. A lot of soldiers of fortune don't care who/what they fight, as long as they are getting paid. I hate to reference a TV show, but look at "Jericho". I see that as a big possibility.....but I'm kinda paranoid
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Post by eagle326 on Aug 11, 2009 15:44:46 GMT -5
When the numbers become known if and when this goes down ; the total amount of citizens ; LE ; military against the Fed will surprise many. A lot of citizens are just sitting back and prepping for the storm coming and living under the radar. Would it be nice if they were out like many of us? Sure ; but not everyone has the same game plan at the moment. Even if they were I seriously doubt the Govt. would care. They firmly believe the after more than 30 yrs. of dumbing down America ; that they have finally achieved the state of SHEEP HOOD among the vast majority.
I know people who look like sheep but are in truth anything but. As for the U.N. soldiers; We've all seen how well they function. Contrary to all the bluster and big talk form the 3 seats of Govt. I firmly believe we will achieve the mission before us. I personally would not want to be a politician WSHTF or a backer of these people. They just don't comprehend LIFE ; LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS From their Ivory towers of power.
As Brock said before ; He hopes it doesn't get nasty and bloody ; but all signs point to it being just that and I still agree . I'm glad to be one of the 3%Er's. 300 million people in America. That's a nice number ; 3million patriots standing forth against the storm is a good start. A size greater than most standing armies of the world if we can reach that percentage. But we won't know until for sure until it happens.
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Post by brocktownsend on Aug 11, 2009 15:49:01 GMT -5
When the numbers become known if and when this goes down ; the total amount of citizens ; LE ; military against the Fed will surprise many. A lot of citizens are just sitting back and prepping for the storm coming and living under the radar. Would it be nice if they were out like many of us? Sure ; but not everyone has the same game plan at the moment. Even if they were I seriously doubt the Govt. would care. They firmly believe the after more than 30 yrs. of dumbing down America ; that they have finally achieved the state of SHEEP HOOD among the vast majority. I know people who look like sheep but are in truth anything but. As for the U.N. soldiers; We've all seen how well they function. Contrary to all the bluster and big talk form the 3 seats of Govt. I firmly believe we will achieve the mission before us. I personally would not want to be a politician WSHTF or a backer of these people. They just don't comprehend LIFE ; LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS From their Ivory towers of power. As Brock said before ; He hopes it doesn't get nasty and bloody ; but all signs point to it being just that and I still agree . I'm glad to be one of the 3%Er's. 300 million people in America. That's a nice number ; 3million patriots standing forth against the storm is a good start. A size greater than most standing armies of the world if we can reach that percentage. But we won't know until for sure until it happens. "A lot of citizens are just sitting back and prepping for the storm coming and living under the radar."I recently read an article that stated these were the ones the Marxists are worried about, because they have no idea how many there might be, unlike say the militias.
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Post by avordvet on Aug 11, 2009 16:04:29 GMT -5
Those are the ones I'm talking about. Like I said, they wouldn't be much of an obstacle, but they would be in the way at some point. Let us not forget all of the "Contractors" that are already being used overseas. A lot of soldiers of fortune don't care who/what they fight, as long as they are getting paid. I hate to reference a TV show, but look at "Jericho". I see that as a big possibility.....but I'm kinda paranoid I know some of those "contractors", I came close to joining one of the groups myself, most are former military and although working for a private company they are still performing duties for our country. They've been called "Soldiers Of Fortune" or Mercenaries but nothing could be further from the truth, they are just filling an empty security "need". Every now and then you get a couple of bad eggs (Katrina comes to mind), but so does every profession. Point is; You might not like their job, but most are still loyal Americans with family and friends that would be killed or injured in a government crackdown. So you shouldn't question their patriotism as they would most likely be standing next to you during a "constitutional conflict".
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Post by eagle326 on Aug 11, 2009 16:47:11 GMT -5
I recently read an article that stated these were the ones the Marxists are worried about, because they have no idea how many there might be, unlike say the militias.
That's true and they have no idea how many are sleepers in their own ranks. It scares the hell out of them . I think the other thing that scares them is ; What happens to them and theirs if they come out on the short end.
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