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Post by Michael Downing on Jan 29, 2013 10:09:00 GMT -5
I caught a bit of the future of the Republican Party (Senator Rubio) on the news last evening going on about how the path to citizenship could begin until the border was secured. How did that work for President Reagan? I seem to remember that amnesty bill was contingent upon securing the border. I also saw McCain speaking about how this would bring new members into the Republican Party. So I can assume they will continue to rob me blind in order to try bolster their ranks and win elections. And the difference between the two parties is??? We're screwed. as Russell says on Dump DC: The Sun Is Setting On The American Empire. It's Secession Or Slavery. Choose One. There Is No Third Choice. randysrightiii.wordpress.com/2013/01/29/cost-of-giving-illegal-immigrants-path-to-citizenship-could-outweigh-fiscal-benefits/Cost of giving illegal immigrants path to citizenship could outweigh fiscal benefitsAny immigration reform plan that allows the roughly 11 million individuals now in the United States illegally to stay in the country would bring with it a mix of new revenues and increased costs. And as President Obama and a bipartisan group of senators separately press the issue this week, past studies suggest it is doubtful that the fiscal benefits of such policy changes would outweigh the costs. By legally joining the workforce, the immigrants in question would generate additional and much-needed income tax but also would become eligible for a certain level of government assistance. Research shows creating a path to citizenship for so many illegal immigrants would result in significant costs to state, local and federal governments. “This doesn’t make them bad people, but (lawmakers) should be honest with the public,” Steve Camarota, director of research for the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies, says. “Don’t sell them a bill of goods.” While most studies, including one by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, have focused on the impact at the state and local levels, where most of the socials services for illegal immigrants are provided, Camarota has also looked at the impact on the federal government. He estimated in an often-cited 2004 study that illegal immigrants paying taxes and getting access to such social services as Medicaid or food stamps would cost taxpayers $29 billion annually. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, he argued, the main reason illegal immigrants create a large deficit is not their heavy use of social services but their lack of education, which results in low-paying jobs and small income-tax contributions. “On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households,” writes Camarota, in his 2004 study “The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget.”
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Post by enforcer on Jan 30, 2013 6:36:17 GMT -5
I don't understand the thinking process that the right uses on the issue of immigration. Let me say up front that I've been in this debate for over a decade and I spent six years working in immigration law at one point... just so I would have the facts. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant / illegal alien. The act of crossing a border without papers is a civil offense, not a crime. So, the people on the anti immigrant side of the equation are talking gibberish that the politicians try to work around, even telling you what you want to hear. Then there is this part where some people want to make citizens out of ten million or more foreigners. What??? Most of those immigrants work minimum wage, low pay jobs. The moment they become citizens they qualify for unemployment compensation, Medicare, Social Security, and other entitlements. You can afford that? The right needs to get their heads out of their backsides. There is no such thing as granting amnesty when the actions the foreigners took is not a crime. Furthermore, you cannot afford that many new citizens. Then there is this horse manure you call " border security." Those parroting such a line have already caused all of the following: So - called " Patriot Act" (subtitles in that bill include Border Security Enhancement, etc.) National ID / REAL ID Act Constitution Free Zone www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw7xr9ezGxEreason.com/blog/2012/04/05/federal-court-gives-another-thumbs-up-tonacla.org/blog/2012/9/21/driving-constitution-free-zoneWarrant Less Searches Crackdown on your Miranda Warnings Abolition of the Fourth Amendment I could go on and on, but it appears the anti immigrant lobby does not understand the long reaching effects of their efforts. They are making us an absolute POLICE STATE. The solution is and always has been simple: Guest Workers that have no expectation of an automatic path to citizenship.
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Post by midnightrider on Jan 30, 2013 8:40:56 GMT -5
I also saw McCain speaking about how this would bring new members into the Republican Party.
BINGO!
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Post by safetalker on Jan 30, 2013 9:08:02 GMT -5
There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant / illegal alien. The act of crossing a border without papers is a civil offense, not a crime. Here in lies the problem that we are talking out both sides of our mouths about. When Hose' walks across the border into Arizona he is a trespasser. He is also the problem of the local Sheriff only if the man or woman who owns that land he is trespassing on calls the Sheriff. If he walks on and the Sheriff is not called he can lawfully go anywhere he desires. In fact Hose' and his friends have done that for the past 3000 years. To make it more defined in 2007 Kink George the lesser, Edwards of Canada, and Fox of Mexico got together and signed it into an agreement on security and prosperity. Hose's had no dog in that fight. When Hose' get a job digging cucumbers in North Carolina he is working as an independent Contractor who gets a shared trailer on the backside of the farm with a tap into the Crop irrigation system for water, and a septic tank shared with 5 other trailers, and one A/C line from the pump circuit and so much per bushel of Cucumbers he hauls to the trailer. This is paid in cash off a tally sheet at the end of the day. Since this is called reimbursement for labor and he is not an employee he owes no taxes in the States unless gets benefits. He came here to work, and we have let him stay till we needed his job to eat ourselves, but we won't work for his wages. So the farmer rehire Hose' and the game goes on. The problem is Hose' was followed by the Cartels he is running away from. These we assign legal rights to and treat them under our civil law, but want Hose' to have a special Federal Law to deal with his problem.
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Post by hefferman1 on Jan 30, 2013 12:16:57 GMT -5
I don't understand the thinking process that the right uses on the issue of immigration. Let me say up front that I've been in this debate for over a decade and I spent six years working in immigration law at one point... just so I would have the facts. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant / illegal alien. The act of crossing a border without papers is a civil offense, not a crime. So, the people on the anti immigrant side of the equation are talking gibberish that the politicians try to work around, even telling you what you want to hear. Then there is this part where some people want to make citizens out of ten million or more foreigners. What??? Most of those immigrants work minimum wage, low pay jobs. The moment they become citizens they qualify for unemployment compensation, Medicare, Social Security, and other entitlements. You can afford that? The right needs to get their heads out of their backsides. There is no such thing as granting amnesty when the actions the foreigners took is not a crime. Furthermore, you cannot afford that many new citizens. Then there is this horse manure you call " border security." Those parroting such a line have already caused all of the following: So - called " Patriot Act" (subtitles in that bill include Border Security Enhancement, etc.) National ID / REAL ID Act Constitution Free Zone www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw7xr9ezGxEreason.com/blog/2012/04/05/federal-court-gives-another-thumbs-up-tonacla.org/blog/2012/9/21/driving-constitution-free-zoneWarrant Less Searches Crackdown on your Miranda Warnings Abolition of the Fourth Amendment I could go on and on, but it appears the anti immigrant lobby does not understand the long reaching effects of their efforts. They are making us an absolute POLICE STATE. The solution is and always has been simple: Guest Workers that have no expectation of an automatic path to citizenship. Your lawyer speak is garbage. Crossing the border is illegal, and that makes the person who did it an illegal. They are breaking US laws. That is why they have been detained, handcuffed, and deported in the past. The libs do not like this, because the illegal will take welfare, and food stamps, and then vote Democrat, even when he is here illegal. It also means his future generations will be on welfare, and vote democrat. That way they have the votes to corrupt the system, and do what they want. I say send then all home, and if they come again, they dig ditches in chain gangs for 10 years then get sent home. As for your lawerese. I have meet plenty of lawyers, I only like 4 because of the forked tongue lawerese, and the fact almost every lawyer acts like a snake in the grass.
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Post by avordvet on Jan 30, 2013 12:24:31 GMT -5
il-le-gal [ih-lee-guhl] adjective 1.forbidden by law or statute. 2.contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc. noun 3.Informal. illegal alien
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Post by enforcer on Jan 30, 2013 18:54:35 GMT -5
il-le-gal [ih-lee-guhl] adjective 1.forbidden by law or statute. 2.contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc. noun 3.Informal. illegal alien I absolutely cannot understand why it is the people on the right insist on calling a civil violation a crime. This lesson is for free. 1) The topic of entry into the United States without papers is covered in 8 USC 1325. At the top of the entry it is entitled IMPROPER Entry... not illegal and not unlawful 2) In 2008, Attorney General Michael Mukasey (a Republican appointed by G.W. Bush) argued before the American Bar Association (the most liberal, communist loving scumbags on God's green earth - in my opinion): " Not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime." www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_118423.htmlSurely you did not intend to make a liberal's argument with your post, did you? 3) Michael Muskasey (G.W.'s United States Attorney General and HIGHEST RANKING IMMIGRATION OFFICIAL IN THE U.S. - the top one, BTW): " Mukasey wrote that the US constitution affords a right to counsel, and hence a right to effective counsel, only in criminal matters. Immigration proceedings are civil matters, he wrote, and therefore that right does not apply." www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ichael-mukasey4) " I know that's very hard for people to understand, but it's not a federal crime. I was U.S. attorney in the Southern district of New York, so believe me, I know this. In fact, when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it's not a criminal proceeding. It's a civil proceeding." Rudy Giuliani, Republican and U.S. Presidential candidate www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...i-immigration/5) Janet Napolitano as the HEAD of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security stated: “ And yes, when we find illegal workers, yes, appropriate action, some of which is criminal, most of that is civil, because crossing the border is not a crime per se..” www.examiner.com/article/dhs-janet-napolitano-claims-illegal-immigration-is-not-a-crime6) IF crossing the border were a crime, we would not be trying to get a law to make it a crime. We would settle for enforcing the law. Right? Of course I'm right. Remember James Sensenbrenner? Let's look at Sensenbrenner's own proposed anti immigrant legislation. It was called HR 4437. I won't quote the entirety of it, just what is relevant to this discussion. However we will leave a link if someone wants to explore the whole bill and see if I'm telling you right. Here it is: "AN ACT
To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to strengthen enforcement of the immigration laws, to enhance border security, and for other purposes."
The word amend means: "To improve. To change for the better by removing faults or defects. To change, correct, revise." Black's Law Dictionary
Now, what did Sensenbrenner want to change or revise?
Section 203 of HR 4437:
"Section 275 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1325) is amended--
(1) in the section heading, by inserting `UNLAWFUL PRESENCE;' after `IMPROPER TIME OR PLACE;';
(2) in subsection (a)--
(A) by striking `Any alien' and inserting `Except as provided in subsection (b), any alien'; ....
(D) is otherwise present in the United States in violation of the immigration laws or the regulations prescribed thereunder..."www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h109-4437WHY would you amend (change / revise) 8 USC 1325 to include presence in the United States (without papers) in 8 USC 1325 ? ANSWER: Because it isn't a crime to be in the U.S. without papers. So, why do the anti - immigrants keep insisting that it is a crime or somehow "i llegal?" WHY do they insist on calling foreigners " illegal aliens" to the detriment of their own constitutional Liberties? The fact is, "our" side has sent more people to prison over their stubbornness than the left has been able to. Our founding fathers warned you: " An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine Well, I guess you know better than the founding fathers, but the bottom line is, the anti - immigrant legal arguments have been precedent fodder for years, sending more wannabe patriots to prison for pretend crimes than all the left wing laws and liberals combined have been able to. That's not opinion. That is a fact.
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Post by avordvet on Jan 31, 2013 5:19:09 GMT -5
ILLEGAL ALIEN definitions.uslegal.com/i/illegal-immigrant/Try to change the definition as much as you will... But when you attempt to pass this off as some petty crime then YOU become part of the problem, most of these ILLEGAL ALIENS have broken MANY more laws than crossing the border. But, you are probably well aware of this, which makes your "moral" stance and defense of these law breakers even worse. Many MOST of these scum-bags are running around with falsified and or forged documentation, Falsified/Forged Drivers Licenses, and Falsified/Forged Social Security Numbers, all to steal jobs and taxpayer funded government services from LEGAL U.S. CITIZENS. And if you are gonna spout numbers, know what you are talking about, a great majority of the ILLEGALS in the U.S. came over or crossed the border on a Visa and stayed... guess in your world this is legal too.
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Post by enforcer on Jan 31, 2013 6:43:29 GMT -5
ILLEGAL ALIEN definitions.uslegal.com/i/illegal-immigrant/Try to change the definition as much as you will... But when you attempt to pass this off as some petty crime then YOU become part of the problem, most of these ILLEGAL ALIENS have broken MANY more laws than crossing the border. But, you are probably well aware of this, which makes your "moral" stance and defense of these law breakers even worse. Many MOST of these scum-bags are running around with falsified and or forged documentation, Falsified/Forged Drivers Licenses, and Falsified/Forged Social Security Numbers, all to steal jobs and taxpayer funded government services from LEGAL U.S. CITIZENS. And if you are gonna spout numbers, know what you are talking about, a great majority of the ILLEGALS in the U.S. came over or crossed the border on a Visa and stayed... guess in your world this is legal too. I would appreciate it if you would preface your criticisms in the form of a question. Like it or not general definitions are NOT legal definitions and have no authority in a court of law. The problem we have today is NOT " illegal aliens" (as you like to call them) but, people too stubborn and blind to see the whole issue. You insist on calling people who enter the United States without papers " illegal aliens." So, what source do you claim a guarantee to unalienable Rights? I claim my guarantee via the Constitution of the United States. The courts have ruled that the reason we have protections against unreasonable searches, warrant less searches, and a presumption of innocence is based upon the protections of the Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments (among others.) The method you use to judge people is then meted out to you when it's your backside on the line. Now, maybe you have never had to litigate a case based upon your flimsy interpretation of our laws, but I have. Look, if you don't like the Hispanics (they are usually the scapegoats in this "illegal" drivel) then try the more honest route. Since the 14th Amendment was illegally ratified, they are not entitled to constitutional protections. See these links: www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0060_0393_ZS.htmlwww.barefootsworld.net/14uncon.htmlThe bottom line is, there is a presumption of innocence. I don't like the liberals referring to me as a domestic terrorist without my having been actually convicted of a crime. Conviction usually precedes being called an " illegal" any freaking thing. Ditto for the foreigner. Read the words of our founding fathers: " An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates his duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." Thomas Paine Your legal argument is flawed as much as your reasoning. For instance, your side wanted Hitler style National ID / REAL ID Act. You cannot get a driver's license without a Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops " Social Security Number" and a thorough background check is done before an SSN is issued. The fake document argument is a decade old. Additionally, most foreigners get a Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes as you do. Finally, a job belongs to the employer that created it. It doesn't belong to you. To accuse someone of "stealing" your job that you never owned is not cool. Hey, in a socialist based government the government can give you the job. Is THAT what you are suggesting?
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Post by avordvet on Jan 31, 2013 7:06:07 GMT -5
I would appreciate it if you would preface your criticisms in the form of a question. My criticisms of your statements will be expressed in any way I see fit. Actually I'm beginning to see why you've had so many self-professed problems on other boards and websites, you might want to head over to the GOP, HuffPo and/or the democratic underground, as they embrace many of the same beliefs.
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Post by safetalker on Jan 31, 2013 8:58:18 GMT -5
Guys You can't have both sides of the bread buttered! These "Illegal Aliens" do not work for other "Illegal Aliens". They work for patriotic, home grown, greedy, United States loving Americans. These Americans all pay big chunks of cash into the Tax base, and contribute to many Elected felons war chests. The problem is not Jose'! The problem is that Jose's brother-in-law who fronts for the MS13, or some such gang is on several watch lists, and thus no one is arresting him because he is on that watch list, and the local LEO's get more Grant money to watch him than they would to arrest him. Enforcer You will find that many on this board prefer not to go to your well documented links on truth since it interferes with their comfort zones. Good research though. Truth is always relevant to your personal beliefs. If you believe that Jose' took your job by charging less then he is bad. The fact that he works for what the company can afford to pay and stay in business is not important. It would be better for most to allow the business to close than to take less than the minimum wage and keep some cash coming in. The State legislature is working on a Bill as we speak to reduce the Unemployment from $535 to $325 per week. When this hits Jose' will be in a line for a job since there will be no free rides on the Insurance because no one can live on $325 per week and pay Obama's tax increase and the State Taxes. some know I have a store in a Flea Market. The "Mexicans" is see every weekend are buying one commodity in droves. "SUITCASES"
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Post by avordvet on Jan 31, 2013 16:32:36 GMT -5
The Mexican Invasion and Occupation: Mexico Builds the LA RAZA "THE RACE" SUPREMACIST Welfare State.The Democrat Party is now the party for ILLEGALS, LA RAZA SUPREMACY, OPEN BORDERS, NO E-VERIFY, OBAMCARE for ILLEGALS, AMERICAN-PAID DREAM ACTS and AMNESTY or continued NON-ENFORCEMENT.The GOP has now joined Obama, Mexico and LA RAZA'S push for open borders and NO LEGAL NEED APPLY! It's all about keeping wages depressed! *** THE GOP HAS NOW JOINED IN ON OBAMA'S HISPANDERING FOR THE ILLEGALS' VOTES AND PUSH TO EXPAND THE MEX WELFARE STATE in U.S. mexicanoccupation.blogspot.com/2011/02/obamas-la-raza-iinvested-admin-radical.html
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Post by walfred on Jan 31, 2013 17:12:48 GMT -5
Now,(when the thing pass' and it will) they can compete with every level job,and will except much less wages,which will bring down the already lower wages in this economy.Thank you,Demon Dems and the Libots who keep electing the same evil into our congress/WH...
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Post by enforcer on Jan 31, 2013 18:31:12 GMT -5
I read something a few days ago relative to Galatians 4 :16 which reads: " Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth ?" The article states: The apostle reminds the Galatians of the difficulty under which he laboured when he first came among them. But he notices, that he was a welcome messenger to them. Yet how very uncertain are the favour and respect of men! Let us labour to be accepted of God. You once thought yourselves happy in receiving the gospel; have you now reason to think otherwise? Christians must not forbear speaking the truth, for fear of offending others.www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/4-16-compare.htmlSince there are people on this board who do not care if they offend me for telling the truth, I won't fear offending them; HOWEVER, I'd prefer to have these kinds of discussions face to face. Let me tell all of you a secret: I didn't write the freaking law. I've never commented on any boards (other than my own) how I feel personally about the laws. You are being presented with the facts. Immigrants come here and a lot of you get whizzed off. Got it. That still does not make improper entry a crime. You are certainly welcome to petition the authorities to make immigration a crime, but it simply is not. Furthermore, you cannot have an ex post facto law. The Constitution states: " No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed." (Article 1 Section 9) Your federal legislators have attorneys working for them and most legislators ARE lawyers. So, they know the law and they are hog tied by a popularity contest on one hand and the liberals / socialists on the other. The unfortunate part of this equation is that I personally associated with this " movement" because they were drawn to people claiming to believe in the United States Constitution. Being in the United States without papers is not a crime. Entering the U.S. without papers is not a crime. These are legal distinctions that are not debatable. I've quoted conservative Republicans in support of my position, yet we have someone telling me that I might go to " HuffPo and/or the democratic underground, as they embrace many of the same beliefs." No, as a matter of FACT, they most assuredly do not beleve anything close to what I do. The Dems want NO part of a nation where the people want to be masters of their own destiny. My views are not the wasteful POLICE STATE mentality of the anti - immigrant lobby NOR are they the nanny state view held by the left. No, I do not believe in spending TRILLIONS of dollars more than what the xenophobes claim immigrants cost AND take a dump on my constitutional Rights to build this National Socialist nightmare. No, I am not a can't we all just get along version of Rodney King. Above all, I am a realist. The right makes this phony argument that they only want the immigrants to do everything the "legal" way. Well, the REALITY is, it wasn't illegal to start with AND, in millions of instances, no PROPER procedure was ever enacted that met the fact situations of millions. Today your legislator and mine, regardless of how they feel about the law is hog tied by their constituency not being able to understand the parameters by which they are forced to legislate. Sooo... you want the immigrant to follow a "legal" path. You leave the legislator no choice BUT to create the proper procedure that fits the fact situations. Furthermore, they cannot declare what was not a crime to be a crime just because some of you are loud and boisterous. I gave you a possible constitutional solution. The stubbornness by the anti immigrant lobby has insured that we will now offer citizenship to millions of foreigners. It didn't have to be that way.
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Post by watchful on Jan 31, 2013 19:17:18 GMT -5
The Mexican Invasion and Occupation: Mexico Builds the LA RAZA "THE RACE" SUPREMACIST Welfare State.The Democrat Party is now the party for ILLEGALS, LA RAZA SUPREMACY, OPEN BORDERS, NO E-VERIFY, OBAMCARE for ILLEGALS, AMERICAN-PAID DREAM ACTS and AMNESTY or continued NON-ENFORCEMENT.The GOP has now joined Obama, Mexico and LA RAZA'S push for open borders and NO LEGAL NEED APPLY! It's all about keeping wages depressed! *** THE GOP HAS NOW JOINED IN ON OBAMA'S HISPANDERING FOR THE ILLEGALS' VOTES AND PUSH TO EXPAND THE MEX WELFARE STATE in U.S. mexicanoccupation.blogspot.com/2011/02/obamas-la-raza-iinvested-admin-radical.html
Everytime I see that photo of the latino putitos I wonder what it would look like through a 10X scope or over the ridge of a 21" black shaft.
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Post by Cujo on Jan 31, 2013 19:31:35 GMT -5
Are you Fricking serious?
We have both parties jockeying for votes vs fixing the problem, while there is an economic burden and a security threat to our Nation because of illegal aliens.
No sir when you talk of, quote, "The stubbornness by the anti immigrant lobby", it appears you don't truly understand that most are not anti immigration just anti illegal immigration.
We are being over run, we can not absorb such numbers without American Citizens paying the price. Mean while our government uses this to impede on our Liberties and Rights.
And you want to debate whether it is incorrect to call someone who violates our law a criminal or not!
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Post by avordvet on Feb 1, 2013 4:56:33 GMT -5
I've helped this group for years. I even let 'em know about a local city allowing squatters in some old apartments, after I contacted ALIPAC, they contacted the city attorney, BAM a pack of law breaking ILLEGALS on their way home, or to the next welfare stop. American's for Legal ImmigrationWelcome to Americans for Legal Immigration PAC (ALIPAC)! We are one of America's top immigration enforcement and border security advocacy organizations. We represent Americans of every race, political party, and walk of life working together to support the enforcement of our existing immigration and border laws instead of any form of Amnesty for illegal aliens. Visit us often and join our e-mail alerts to take action and help us stop and reverse illegal immigration in America! We are the world's top source of information about illegal immigration, illegal alien crimes, amnesty attempts, immigration issues in campaigns and elections, statistics, facts, activism, legislation, laws, problems, and much more! www.alipac.us/content/
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Post by avordvet on Feb 1, 2013 6:01:06 GMT -5
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Post by safetalker on Feb 1, 2013 8:19:20 GMT -5
Which you have to associate with the standard plan for government accounting. _____________________________________________________________ Pay Close Attention Please. This IS THE MESS WE HAVE TO CLEAN UP !!!!!!!
NIGHT WATCHMAN Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of a desert. Congress said, "Someone may steal from it at night." So they created a night watchman position and hired a person for the job. Then Congress said, "How does the watchman do his job without instruction?" So they created a planning department and hired two people, one person to write the instructions, and one person to do time studies.
Then Congress said, "How will we know the night watchman is doing the tasks correctly?" So they created a Quality Control department and hired two people. One was to do the studies and one was to write the reports.
Then Congress said, "How are these people going to get paid?" So they created two positions: a time keeper and a payroll officer then hired two people.
Then Congress said, "Who will be accountable for all of these people?" So they created an administrative section and hired three people, an Administrative Officer, Assistant Administrative Officer, and a Legal Secretary.
Then Congress said, "We have had this command in operation for one year and we are $918,000 over budget, we must cut back."
So they laid-off the night watchman. Courtesy of the Nescera Blogspot
NOW slowly, let it sink in.
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Post by hefferman1 on Feb 1, 2013 11:39:18 GMT -5
I read something a few days ago relative to Galatians 4 :16 which reads: " Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth ?" The article states: The apostle reminds the Galatians of the difficulty under which he laboured when he first came among them. But he notices, that he was a welcome messenger to them. Yet how very uncertain are the favour and respect of men! Let us labour to be accepted of God. You once thought yourselves happy in receiving the gospel; have you now reason to think otherwise? Christians must not forbear speaking the truth, for fear of offending others.www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/4-16-compare.htmlSince there are people on this board who do not care if they offend me for telling the truth, I won't fear offending them; HOWEVER, I'd prefer to have these kinds of discussions face to face. Let me tell all of you a secret: I didn't write the freaking law. I've never commented on any boards (other than my own) how I feel personally about the laws. You are being presented with the facts. Immigrants come here and a lot of you get whizzed off. Got it. That still does not make improper entry a crime. You are certainly welcome to petition the authorities to make immigration a crime, but it simply is not. Furthermore, you cannot have an ex post facto law. The Constitution states: " No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed." (Article 1 Section 9) Your federal legislators have attorneys working for them and most legislators ARE lawyers. So, they know the law and they are hog tied by a popularity contest on one hand and the liberals / socialists on the other. The unfortunate part of this equation is that I personally associated with this " movement" because they were drawn to people claiming to believe in the United States Constitution. Being in the United States without papers is not a crime. Entering the U.S. without papers is not a crime. These are legal distinctions that are not debatable. I've quoted conservative Republicans in support of my position, yet we have someone telling me that I might go to " HuffPo and/or the democratic underground, as they embrace many of the same beliefs." No, as a matter of FACT, they most assuredly do not beleve anything close to what I do. The Dems want NO part of a nation where the people want to be masters of their own destiny. My views are not the wasteful POLICE STATE mentality of the anti - immigrant lobby NOR are they the nanny state view held by the left. No, I do not believe in spending TRILLIONS of dollars more than what the xenophobes claim immigrants cost AND take a dump on my constitutional Rights to build this National Socialist nightmare. No, I am not a can't we all just get along version of Rodney King. Above all, I am a realist. The right makes this phony argument that they only want the immigrants to do everything the "legal" way. Well, the REALITY is, it wasn't illegal to start with AND, in millions of instances, no PROPER procedure was ever enacted that met the fact situations of millions. Today your legislator and mine, regardless of how they feel about the law is hog tied by their constituency not being able to understand the parameters by which they are forced to legislate. Sooo... you want the immigrant to follow a "legal" path. You leave the legislator no choice BUT to create the proper procedure that fits the fact situations. Furthermore, they cannot declare what was not a crime to be a crime just because some of you are loud and boisterous. I gave you a possible constitutional solution. The stubbornness by the anti immigrant lobby has insured that we will now offer citizenship to millions of foreigners. It didn't have to be that way. You are not our enemy for telling the truth, but for appeasing those who are breaking the Laws of our country. "If you do not stand for something, you will fall for anything. " Hamilton Try standing for the Constitutional laws of the land, and you will do much better in this community.
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Post by enforcer on Feb 1, 2013 21:37:06 GMT -5
Are you Fricking serious? We have both parties jockeying for votes vs fixing the problem, while there is an economic burden and a security threat to our Nation because of illegal aliens. No sir when you talk of, quote, "The stubbornness by the anti immigrant lobby", it appears you don't truly understand that most are not anti immigration just anti illegal immigration. We are being over run, we can not absorb such numbers without American Citizens paying the price. Mean while our government uses this to impede on our Liberties and Rights. And you want to debate whether it is incorrect to call someone who violates our law a criminal or not! Did you bother to read my posts or did you just start typing? Yeah, the legislators heard all this " illegal" cow manure and "fixed" your problem by making the foreigner "legal" via citizenship. I don't know how in the Hell some people can honestly look at me and claim I appease them when YOUR strategies absolutely guarantee citizenship whereas my proposals absolutely and positively do NOT lead to citizenship. Oh, and for poops and giggles: In 1953 the United States introduced " Operation Wetback" and a year later deported every brown person they could find. Within five years of Operation Wetback the unemployment rate DOUBLED in the United States and has only been that low once since... and that was when immigrants were at their highest presence in the U.S. The reality is, the Dems want the Hispanic for their vote and the Republicans understand that immigrants create jobs NOT cost them. If you really want the facts, I'd be more than happy to oblige. But, if you're going to accuse me of being in bed with the left, let's be honest. Most of the alleged "facts" being presented here by the anti - immigrant lobby comes from one or more of the John Tanton enterprises (FAIR, NumbersUSA, etc.) Tanton is a white supremacist that used to advise David Duke of the K.K.K. Now, I'm not going to accuse the people here of being racists, but point out that if they are willing to accuse me of being a leftie, well then apply the same standard and let's play fair. I'll play ball and take on your alleged " facts." I won't even call you a name. HOWEVER, if you're all about " legal immigration" as some keep harping on... well, making citizens out of immigrants clears the matter up. Again, I'm the ONLY person in the debate that did not start out with a premise that ended in citizenship. How can the Hispanics see me as being the poster boy if citizenship were the real issue?
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Post by safetalker on Feb 1, 2013 21:55:13 GMT -5
Let us chill a moment. I don't know how many of you even have minimal contact with the Mexicans, legal or illegal. Here in Eastern North Carolina where I live they are every where. It is easier for them here since most of us a Ex-military and have been overseas in various countries. I speak to them and they speak to me. From my talking to them most have no intention of ever becoming an american. They are a proud people. The came here to make a stack of dollars. Then they want to go back home and buy a small piece of land for themselves and their family and retire to the Hacienda. One guy here at the Flea Market has put two of his kids through Jr College and has one more to go then it is Goodbye. The only time he or his family has been to the Dr. was when they called the Ambulance when his wife began to bleed after the last kid. This is how most do it. The putitos on that photo is California Scum. Most of what we see as these organizers are Mexican Government paid and Obama fed organizers. If the flow of FRN back to Mexico stopped the country would crash. So we do have one thing that both Americans and Mexicans can agree on: They don't want to be an American anymore than we want them to. That is about Mexicans. Then you have millions of Non-mexican illegal immigrants. The Canadians are the worst. They ride in here get a job because they look American. Get a medical plan since Canada is Socialist. Then in come the whole family. Then there is the daily wave of Haitians off the coast of Florida. If every Haitian on the island was to come here it would only take half the trips. Thus we have Haitians from Africa arriving daily. Can't stop them since it would be racist. I see about two dozen east Europeans a weekend in my store. Finally we get to the Arabs. They have lifted all limits for Algerians, Egyptians, and Somali's. Lastly what about the thousands of Chinese who arrive here to work in Chinese businesses and the bolt. Folks! This is what America is all about.
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Post by enforcer on Feb 1, 2013 23:56:05 GMT -5
The Mexicans and those south of there are over 90 percent of the undocumented immigrants. I agree that they do not want to become citizens. That's the whole point.
When you make this phony argument that it's only about being "legal." legislators are hog tied into that being the alleged problem. Since it's not a crime the legislator must then decide what to do within the parameters of the law.
The people claiming NOT to be anti - immigrant say it's about wanting these people to become citizens the "right way." Congress is doing exactly what you're asking... given your talking points.
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Post by avordvet on Feb 2, 2013 7:04:05 GMT -5
Illegal Aliens a Drain on U.S. Taxpayers, Report SaysWritten by R. Cort Kirkwood Illegal aliens are largely poor and uneducated and drain the welfare and public education systems, according to a survey from the Center for Immigration Studies. The study, "Immigrants in the United States: A Profile of America's Foreign-Born Population," paints a startling picture of the nearly 11 million illegals and their children. The survey shows that about 40 million immigrants live in the United States. A little less than 28 percent, or 10.5 million, have crossed the border illegally and are flouting U.S. law. Illegals are about 3.5 percent of the U.S. population. www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/immigration/item/12431-illegal-aliens-a-drain-on-us-taxpayers-report-says
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Post by enforcer on Feb 2, 2013 11:21:32 GMT -5
The Center for Immigration Studies is one of a host of non-profit organizations started by and or funded by John Tanton. Among Tanton's other non - profit groups are NumbersUSA and FAIR. Tanton provided the talking points for the National Association of White People back in the late 1970s and early 1980s. At one point, Tanton wrote candidly that to maintain American culture, “ a European-American majority” is required. So that we understand this is a highly emotional debate, I won't rely solely on the left. I will do my own research and tell you this: If you want to argue our language, culture, race and heritage then you get no argument with me. If you want to present the debate as a " legal" issue, then let's dance: If the immigration battle is all about "legality," then don't you find it hypocritical that the blacks in America are citizens ONLY by virtue of an illegally ratified Amendment to the Constitution? What you say? Yes, the 14th Amendment was NEVER legally ratified: www.barefootsworld.net/14uncon.htmlDid the blacks assimilate into our society? Are you kidding? You have a president that says that Jeremiah Wright is his moral compass. Here is the quote: " Jeremiah Wright helps me keep my moral compass straight and defines my priorities." www.advertiser-tribune.com/page/content.detail/id/550006/Obama-a-dishonest-president.html?nav=5237This is the same Jeremiah Wright that screamed " God D*^^n America" from the pulpit while referring to whites as " blonde hair, blue eyed devils." Watch it here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=whNE40AwVNoToday many of watch black entertainers, black athletes and even vote for black politicians that share in Obama's vision. You never wail about the fact that blacks are citizens ONLY by virtue of an illegally ratified amendment. Furthermore, by your silence, you do not care that on every front the white people must yield to black culture. You, your children and for those of you old enough, your GRAND CHILDREN try to emulate black culture. There is no problem there. OTOH, you are willing to accept the work of a man that advised the racists of the 1970s and 1980s without an examination into the information he bases his research on. In doing so, you screw yourselves. For example: In arguing that undocumented foreigners pay no taxes, you don't consider that is a freaking lie. The ONLY tax the foreigner can be accused of not paying is the income tax... yet they do. Adding insult to injury, the income tax is voluntary and, much like the 14th Amendment, the 16th Amendment failed to meet constitutional muster: www.thelawthatneverwas.com/So, you are inadvertently promoting the income tax - a graduated tax that is taken from the Communist Manifesto. Well, here is nail for your coffin: " In 2001, then-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan estimated that undocumented immigrants paid about $70 billion annually in taxes and received about $43 billion in government services — a net benefit to American taxpayers that smashed one of the common nativist myths.
In 2005, The New York Times reported that undocumented workers contributed about $7 billion to the Social Security Administration. While ITINs are available, so are many phony Social Security numbers. With them, undocumented workers pay billions into the SSA and Medicare systems, though the many workers who leave, either of their own will or through deportation, never will collect retirement or health benefits.
By 2007, the Social Security trust fund had received a net benefit of upwards of $240 billion from unauthorized immigrants." Two years ago, Stephen Goss, chief actuary of the SSA, told The Washington Post: "If we had not had other-than-legal immigrants in the country over the past, then these numbers suggest that we would have entered persistent shortfall of tax revenue to cover [payouts] starting [in] 2009."" articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-10-15/news/bs-md-rodricks-1016-20121015_1_itins-income-tax-returns-sales-taxesThe reality is, it is economically profitable for the immigrant to be in America. Agreed they threaten our culture and so forth, but you can't believe everything John Tanton says. You simply don't have an economic case unless you start arguing that we ought to be a socialist nation.
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